Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

[Seminole]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

Same can be applied on non-muslims, i cannot remember a single incident where Non-muslims has been labeled as peace-lovers or peace makers, even in todays so called educated world, non-muslims are the warmongers...

Whether you can't remember, you don't pay attention or you are blind to it all falls into the category that you are not educated about these peace makers.

[quote]
anyway, u can bash muslims as much u want, as we are ( because of our decreasing faith on Allah and the book) most weak group of people, who will do anything to not to be labeled as Muslim.
[/quote]
I'm not bashing Muslims. Merely pointing out that no society is perfect. It is possible to have a loving relationship no matter your religion.

[quote]
last but not least, u and every body are free to take whatever path they want to choose ( as this is why human beings were created). u can celebrate valentine, basant, or what ever festival they want, but these festivals will remain against the soul of Islam.
[/quote]
I think you you mean against the soul of Muslim culture, not Islam.

[Seminole]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

So you want to say that, fooling around with others for a day or two is better then wedded with some one?

Arranged marriages have nothing to do with love or religion. If it's an excuse to have sex, then better to be celibate.

[quote]
Every human being ( male/female) have problems in this world, no one had perfect life, atleast muslim women don't have to go into pubs to look for one night stand or set into an illegal relationship ( which btw is being resisted by Church of Rome) for an average of 6 months and then turn to someone else.
[/quote]
Non-Muslims do not have to follow that lifestyle. There is a choice whether or not to be promiscuous.

[quote]
Unlike western women, Muslims women is considered head of family or atleast earn respect of most of the family members ( 100% is not acheivable in any case) and not like western women who when cannot satisfy man's lust is thrown into old houses or a quarantine i may say, untill they are dead.
[/quote]
More irrational generalizations. Perhaps due to ignorance or brainwashing, I can't be sure.

[quote]
Few so-called muslims are adopting the same in muslim world but again most of them are the one who will throw their older generation in isolation and celebrate valentine and other unislamic festivals...
(thanks to western/non-muslim culture)
[/quote]
Assisted living and Valentines are not in the least bit related.

[hanibal]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

Whether you can't remember, you don't pay attention or you are blind to it all falls into the category that you are not educated about these peace makers.

so y don't u educate me about these peace makers, who sometime nuke civilian cities, sometime take part in genocides by providing weapons to one party and sanctions on other, sometimes bomb countries and kill more than half million human lives ( mostly muslim women, children and innocent citizens) for oil, when feel like, demolishes building, and then kill innocents in return... which peace makers u r talking about??

[QUOTE]
I'm not bashing Muslims. Merely pointing out that no society is perfect. It is possible to have a loving relationship no matter your religion.
[/QUOTE]

I agree

[quote]

I think you you mean against the soul of Muslim culture, not Islam.
[/quote]

no there is no muslim culture, iam talking about soul of Islam.

[hanibal]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

Arranged marriages have nothing to do with love or religion. If it's an excuse to have sex, then better to be celibate.

i think otherwise, its better to have relationship than to have sex like animals, infact animal tends to stay with one life partner...

[quote]

Non-Muslims do not have to follow that lifestyle. There is a choice whether or not to be promiscuous.

[/quote]

it would be better if we say that muslims don't have any lifestlye to follow, they live like worst kind of wild animals and thats the choice they have made.

[quote]
More irrational generalizations. Perhaps due to ignorance or brainwashing, I can't be sure.
[/quote]

so u r saying that, old homes does not exist or u want to say that grannys are considered as gift of God in the western society.

[quote]
Assisted living and Valentines are not in the least bit related.
[/quote]

actually either u r blind or brainwashed, ( please note that i have returned ur words only) that y u can't see the things coming.

anyway, whenever i show mirror to so-called educated, bold, learned and whatever u call them person, they just behave like u, and never answer, now u may say that these are baseless alligations which i have created, to this let me tell u, have look around u, and tell me the reasons of crimes and brutallity against humanity in the western countries, ( as they are developed, educated, and bla bla) hope fully i will not get answer of this time as well

[Seminole]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

so y don't u educate me about these peace makers, who sometime nuke civilian cities, sometime take part in genocides by providing weapons to one party and sanctions on other, sometimes bomb countries and kill more than half million human lives ( mostly muslim women, children and innocent citizens) for oil, when feel like, demolishes building, and then kill innocents in return... which peace makers u r talking about??

Only mentioning these instances is like only mentioning suicide bombers, kidnappers and those who use rape as war when talking about Muslims.

[quote]
no there is no muslim culture, iam talking about soul of Islam.
[/quote]
Of course there is a Muslim culture. 1/2 of the threads here discuss things that would be culture under any non-Muslim forum. No, you'll say, it is part of Islam*.* Yes, Islamic culture.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

Psyah you should practice some more humility. Don't assume that every piece of advice that comes out of your mouth is something that God necessarily agrees with. Thankfully, God gave me a brain to not fall for illogical and unreasonable and impractical and dogmatic and falsified arguments such as yours.

[Moonshiner]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

Arranged marriages have nothing to do with love or religion. If it's an excuse to have sex, then better to be celibate.

Quite a false and irrational generalization. Don't accuse others of doing something you are already doing. Makes you look like an idiot.

[Seminole]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

i think otherwise, its better to have relationship than to have sex like animals, infact animal tends to stay with one life partner...

I agree, I sure don't advocate a promiscuous lifestyle. But I wouldn't wish anyone the hell of living a life of no love because of an arranged marriage.

[quote]
It would be better if we say that muslims don't have any lifestlye to follow, they live like worst kind of wild animals and thats the choice they have made.
[/quote]
Who is "they"? Let's not judge everyone just because they live in a particular society.

[quote]
so u r saying that, old homes does not exist or u want to say that grannys are considered as gift of God in the western society.

actually either u r blind or brainwashed, ( please note that i have returned ur words only) that y u can't see the things coming.
[/quote]
I want to say exactly what I did "Assisted living and Valentines are not in the least bit related." If it's not blind or brainwashed, why can't you read a sentence for what it is?

[quote]
anyway, whenever i show mirror to so-called educated, bold, learned and whatever u call them person, they just behave like u, and never answer, now u may say that these are baseless alligations which i have created, to this let me tell u, have look around u, and tell me the reasons of crimes and brutallity against humanity in the western countries, ( as they are developed, educated, and bla bla) hope fully i will not get answer of this time as well
[/quote]
I have no idea what allegations you have made to call them basless except your generalizations of everyone in a western sociey. Or that there is nothing but cimes and brutality in western society, which if true are totally ignorant allegations for which I won't waste my time replying.

[Seminole]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

Quite a false and irrational generalization. Don't accuse others of doing something you are already doing. Makes you look like an idiot.

I am not saying it is prelevant in any society, but that it does exists. When it does I stand behind that statement 100%. And sorry, somehow I don't carry much weight to what you think makes a poster look like an idiot.

[Moonshiner]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

I am not saying it is prelevant in any society, but that it does exists. When it does I stand behind that statement 100%.

Ah, so now you're the judge of other people's private lives, of which you know nothing of and pretends that something does "exist". That also makes you look like an idiot. So that's twice already so far.

You did make a generalization, something you accused another of doing. That does make you an idiot.

[Seminole]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

Ah, so now you're the judge of other people's private lives, of which you know nothing of and pretends that something does "exist". That also makes you look like an idiot. So that's twice already so far.

You did make a generalization, something you accused another of doing. That does make you an idiot.

As long as the female has the right to accept or reject marriage, then I am not going to judge. I personally find it very sad someone may never experience love, but if it's a choice (and not a forced, societal mandate), then more power to them.

Stop with the idiot accustations, besides carrying no merit, it's childish.

[mercenary2k]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

^^ dear mercenary2k,

I don't celebrate the valentine, infact I am hardline opposer to this day and all the events which are killer to a soceity in its nature, it may include the muslim festivals of eid.

That is great. Don't celebrate it. I don't accuse you of being Un-Islamic if you don't celebrate its just that people accuse me of doing something un-Islamic if I do celebrate Valentine's Day. I think its harmless fun, you think its a serious violation of Islam. We disagree and lets leave it at that.

Islam has not declared any particualar festival haram, yet it has given certain guidelines to the followers, some of them may are, that people should not do ISRAAF, 2ndly the festival shouldn't be promoting evils ( lust and bay-haya'e ( sorry i don't know english word for this), and i am sure there are plenty others.

That is fine. But like anything, you can take a negative example and turn it into something un-Islamic. Like for example, the Internet, its great for information, news, etc, but there are also XXX sites. But just because there are XXX sites does that make surfing the Internet un-Islamic?

Having focus of Valentine, most of the time, it do the both things which i have mentioned above, ( as matter of fact, chand-raat have same nature), that's why i consider them un-islamic. again this is my prespective and reason, one have right to disagree and make his on point.

Fine, we disagree.

There are many festivals which are good and should be endorsed by muslims (atleast living in united states) one of them is Thanks giving day, i personally like the spirit of the festival, though in east we are very much family oreinted by i guess these bonds are now weakening.

Totally Agree.

As i said earlier and many times, Islam is a vast religion which can adopt many regional activities, given they do not contradict with the teachings of Islam.

Absolutely. We must look at the totality of the celebration rather than the extreme examples before we pass judgement.

See, Hanibal, you are much more coherent, logical and sensible than psyah and hareem01

[Crescent]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

That is great. Don't celebrate it. I don't accuse you of being Un-Islamic if you don't celebrate its just that people accuse me of doing something un-Islamic if I do celebrate Valentine's Day. I think its harmless fun, you think its a serious violation of Islam. We disagree and lets leave it at that.

That is fine. But like anything, you can take a negative example and turn it into something un-Islamic. Like for example, the Internet, its great for information, news, etc, but there are also XXX sites. But just because there are XXX sites does that make surfing the Internet un-Islamic?

Fine, we disagree.

Totally Agree.

Absolutely. We must look at the totality of the celebration rather than the extreme examples before we pass judgement.

See, Hanibal, you are much more coherent, logical and sensible than psyah and hareem01

Just in your eyes.

[hanibal]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

I agree, I sure don't advocate a promiscuous lifestyle. But I wouldn't wish anyone the hell of living a life of no love because of an arranged marriage.

Who is "they"? Let's not judge everyone just because they live in a particular society.

I want to say exactly what I did "Assisted living and Valentines are not in the least bit related." If it's not blind or brainwashed, why can't you read a sentence for what it is?

I have no idea what allegations you have made to call them basless except your generalizations of everyone in a western sociey. Or that there is nothing but cimes and brutality in western society, which if true are totally ignorant allegations for which I won't waste my time replying.

Thought so :)

as i said earlier, u have every right to practice what ever u want to practice, as long as it does not harm others, so go on and live the way u want to live, y imposing ur ideas on muslims! ( this is a question from a muslim to a non-muslim) u go and live the life u want to live and leave us die with our ignorance. ( Please don't kill us and our children with ur bombs)

[hanibal]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

As long as the female has the right to accept or reject marriage, then I am not going to judge. I personally find it very sad someone may never experience love, but if it's a choice (and not a forced, societal mandate), then more power to them.

Stop with the idiot accustations, besides carrying no merit, it's childish.

The So-called free western society admitted that women are human may be a half a century has a go, and yet made them show piece by marketing their bodies as commodities, whereas, Islam gave the right of divorse to a women 1400 years ago, and women do practice this right when ever they feel like,

Infact, unlike catholics, if women disagrees to live in her marriage bond, no one can force her ( Islamically). so she decides to live then it is her choice, and why are u blamming a person for making or picking up a life style? maybe this is what they want...

[mercenary2k]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

The So-called free western society admitted that women are human may be a half a century has a go, and yet made them show piece by marketing their bodies as commodities, whereas, Islam gave the right of divorse to a women 1400 years ago, and women do practice this right when ever they feel like,

Infact, unlike catholics, if women disagrees to live in her marriage bond, no one can force her ( Islamically). so she decides to live then it is her choice, and why are u blamming a person for making or picking up a life style? maybe this is what they want...

And why isn't the Islam you described being practised these days?

Its all well and good to claim that Islam did this and that. No one is questioning Islam, I am questioning Muslims.

[psyah]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

And why isn't the Islam you described being practised these days?

Its all well and good to claim that Islam did this and that. No one is questioning Islam, I am questioning Muslims.

Peace mercenary2k

Because with technology a spec has formed in the eyes of people making them believe that technology equates to greater wisdom. The people in power are feared as well as admired even by many Muslims, yet we don't realise that Allah (SWT) gives power to whomsoever He Wills.

They believe Islam needs to be updated, but don't realise that in many respects we have slipped from the highest point society has ever known. The Muslims we look to to gauge our examples of Muslims are in the countries being afflicted with hardship so we get a skewed understanding of a Muslim.

A Muslim once said to me "the kindest of people he knows are some Christians" I said that I too had many friends who were Christian and were very kind. He then continued to say "unlike those Mullahs who are always arguing" that to me was unfair. Because the best of Muslims when compared to the best of people in other faiths by my standards are as kind or even kinder.

When Muslims are doing this to rationalise their own stance then that is the reason why it is not happening today.

So why is it that a religion is being judged by it's adherents because there are good and bad people in every following.

[hanibal]

Re: Valentines day? - History and Islamic Perspective

And why isn't the Islam you described being practised these days?

Its all well and good to claim that Islam did this and that. No one is questioning Islam, I am questioning Muslims.

The Islam i mentioned is practicsed but is very limited, most of MUSLIMS in todays world are muslims because they born in a family who have labeled them selves as muslims.

I never doubted ur questions, i know every one asks the same question, where is Islam, and what these muslims are doing...

If real Islam has been practised even by 30%, then Muslims supposed to be the super-powers of the globe, but today, yellers for Islam are many but pratictioners are rare commodity.

Don' take me wrong iam not the one who says that Taliban and OBL are the true muslims, to me they are hands of evil who are killing "muslims".

Islam will evolve, and the signs are there, people like u are there, who questions each and every thing, who see every thing from logical prespective, Islam evolve through them through u.

The Muslims u r questioning are tied up with the traditons/interpetions wrote 1000 years ago, they don't understand how a rocket fly or how a baby evolves in mothers womb and their problem is they don't want to understand the logic behind the science, they are too busy in making kafirs ( which i think is their ultimate objective).

Iam sorry u feel my thoughts are in dissarray, i myself is looking for right path.