Utouchables hindus@ National Geographic Magzine

Branded as impure from the moment of birth, one out of six Indians lives and suffers at the bottom of hindu caste system. They are untouchable.

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0306/feature1/index.html

Discrimination against India’s lowest Hindu castes is technically illegal. But try telling that to the 160 million Untouchables, who face violent reprisals if they forget their place.

Get a taste of what awaits you in print from this compelling excerpt.

The sins of Girdharilal Maurya are many, his attackers insisted. He has bad karma. Why else would he, like his ancestors, be born an Untouchable, if not to pay for his past lives? Look, he is a leatherworker, and Hindu law says that working with animal skins makes him unclean, someone to avoid and revile. And his unseemly prosperity is a sin. Who does this Untouchable think he is, buying a small plot of land outside the village? Then he dared speak up, to the police and other authorities, demanding to use the new village well. He got what Untouchables deserve.

One night, while Maurya was away in a nearby city, eight men from the higher Rajput caste came to his farm. They broke his fences, stole his tractor, beat his wife and daughter, and burned down his house. The message was clear: Stay at the bottom where you belong.


To be born a Hindu in India is to enter the caste system, one of the world’s longest surviving forms of social stratification. Embedded in Indian culture for the past 1,500 years, the caste system follows a basic precept: All men are created unequal. The ranks in Hindu society come from a legend in which the main groupings, or varnas, emerge from a primordial being. From the mouth come the Brahmans—the priests and teachers. From the arms come the Kshatriyas—the rulers and soldiers. From the thighs come the Vaisyas—merchants and traders. From the feet come the Sudras—laborers. Each varna in turn contains hundreds of hereditary castes and subcastes with their own pecking orders.

A fifth group describes the people who are achuta, or untouchable. The primordial being does not claim them. Untouchables are outcasts—people considered too impure, too polluted, to rank as worthy beings. Prejudice defines their lives, particularly in the rural areas, where nearly three-quarters of India’s people live. Untouchables are shunned, insulted, banned from temples and higher caste homes, made to eat and drink from separate utensils in public places, and, in extreme but not uncommon cases, are raped, burned, lynched, and gunned down.

Get the whole story in the pages of National Geographic magazine.

It's digraceful that in this day and age this is still allowed to go on in modern India.

no wonder these hindus want to convert from their discriminatory religion to islam & christianity. At least they will achieve equality, something that is not possible in hinduism.

let us hear it from dalit org.

pakistan

Name of Community : Dalit
Population : Approx. 2 million
History/ Details of Community : Swat region in northern Pakistan has a system of social stratification of unequal groups (quom) that can be compared to the Hindu caste system, except that the people are Sunni Muslims. Though no ritual pollution concept exists, concepts of privilege and shame are utilised instead. There is pollution by birth but caste status acquired on birth does not prevent occupational mobility.
In Sindh Province there are around 1.8 million persons living in bondage as agricultural labourers or in the brick kilns, the majority of whom are Dalits from India. There are also Dalits in Punjab Province.
Traditional Occupations : Sweepers; washermen; barbers; those who work with the guts of animals
Types of Discrimination faced : Segregated habitations

Socio-religious sanctions against inter-marriages

Bondage in labour

Discrimination in access to public places, e.g. water, roads, schools, etc.

Discrimination at workplaces, e.g. in dining and accessing water points

Restricted access to land

Forms of extreme humiliation, destruction of property and violence against women used against community

Legislation in place to prohibit/ protect against such Discrimination : No protective legislation exists to prevent caste discrimination.

^ haha rivkz...nice try of saving face....but two wrongs do not make a right...the "discrimination" against dalits does not justify the workings of the caste system, which is so very intrinsic to hinduism.

[quote]

The sins of Girdharilal Maurya are many, his attackers insisted. He has bad karma. Why else would he, like his ancestors, be born an Untouchable, if not to pay for his past lives?

[/quote]

you can actually trace back this hate to the religion itself, which is ruling that anyone born in the lower caste or in a lower strata of the society is paying for his/her misdeeds in the previous “janam”.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by lussi: *
^ haha rivkz...nice try of saving face....but two wrongs do not make a right...the "discrimination" against dalits does not justify the workings of the caste system, which is so very intrinsic to hinduism.

you can actually trace back this hate to the religion itself, which is ruling that anyone born in the lower caste or in a lower strata of the society is paying for his/her misdeeds in the previous “janam”.
[/QUOTE]

once you cross the border land of equal oppurtunity and high wages
to farm workers begins.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *

once you cross the border land of equal oppurtunity and high wages
to farm workers begins.
[/QUOTE]

what??

lussi is right rvikz, two wrongs don't make a right. It's a crappy practice wherever it goes on.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
lussi is right rvikz, two wrongs don't make a right. It's a crappy practice wherever it goes on.
[/QUOTE]

why this selective criticism?
i dont think indian dalits beleive tkikka,ayub and yahaya khans will
leberate them from indian opression.

Rivkz here is a quote from India PM about low caste dalits and impact of Islam. What you call muslim converts at the point of sword are in actual fact low caste hindus who converted to escape your caste system.

Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru (India's Prime Minsiter 1947-64) in ‘The Discovery of India,’ 1946, p. 218, 225.

“The impact of the invaders from the north-west and of Islam on India had been considerable. It had pointed out and shone up the abuses that had crept into Hindu society - ** the petrification of caste, untouchability, exclusiveness carried to fantastic lengths. The idea of the brotherhood of Islam and the theoretical equality of its adherents made a powerful appeal especially to those in the Hindu fold who were denied any semblance of equal treatment.” **
“...his (Babar’s) account tells us of the cultural poverty that had descended on North India. Partly this was due to Timur's destruction, partly due to the exodus of many learned men and artists and noted craftsmen to the South. But this was due also to the drying up of the creative genius of the Indian people.”

“The coming of Islam and of a considerable number of people from outside with different ways of living and thought affected these beliefs and structure. A foreign conquest, with all its evils, has one advantage: it widens the mental horizon of the people and compels them to look out of their shells. They realize that the world is a much bigger and a more variegated place than they had imagined. So the Afghan conquest had affected India and many changes had taken place. Even more so the Moghals, who were far more cultured and advanced in the ways of living than the Afghans, brought changes to India. In particular, they introduced the refinements for which Iran was famous.”

well there is great amount of change in dalit conditions these days dalits have risen to top posts and are doing well in every form of life. still there exits discriminations esp in the rural areas of india but if you analyse thier conditions say from last 50 years you will find a sea of change there was a time when dalits were not allowed to drink water from the well
today the chief minister of up and maharashtra 2 most important states in india are dalits.
the reservation policy and the votebank appeasement have worked wonders for the dalit society. infact there is even talk of giving reservations to upper cast in rajashthan.
today in india there is one community that truely can be labled as dalits (oppressed) are the muslims of india

Re: Utouchables hindus@ National Geographic Magzine

why this fixation on what HINDUS or INDIANs do or don’t do?

I personally think that this is a very sad state for any religion to be in… Every religion (be it hinduism, islam, chriatianity, jew, etc) has spilled blood through out the history of mankind for one reason or the other… be it HINDU untouchables being illtreated, raped, murdered or burnt alive… or be it the shia sunni riots… or the christain and jew riots or the muslim and jew riots… GOD’s name is dragged in each one of these bloody acts… everytime…
The appauling thing is, some of the self-proclaimed gaurdians in every religion blame it on GOD and justify the killings …

give GOD a break!!!

Re: Re: Utouchables hindus@ National Geographic Magzine

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aparna_Dogra: *

why this fixation on what HINDUS or INDIANs do or don't do?

[/QUOTE]

The crux of discussion is about one group of ppl mistreating another. Hindu, muslim, sikh, islam, christians are beside the point unfortunately in this case its sanctioned by hinduism.

Re: Re: Re: Utouchables hindus@ National Geographic Magzine

okie dokie…:k:
no worries then… :slight_smile:
thanx for clarifying for i am a simpleton!!! :smiley:

Re: Re: Re: Utouchables hindus@ National Geographic Magzine

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *

The crux of discussion is about one group of ppl mistreating another. Hindu, muslim, sikh, islam, christians are beside the point unfortunately in this case its sanctioned by hinduism.
[/QUOTE]

should kurds blame indians?

Re: Re: Re: Utouchables hindus@ National Geographic Magzine

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Abdali: *
The crux of discussion is about one group of ppl mistreating another. Hindu, muslim, sikh, islam, christians are beside the point unfortunately in this case
* its sanctioned by hinduism.**
[/QUOTE]

Have you read the hindu scriptures or your comments are based on just hearsay ??

Re: Re: Re: Re: Utouchables hindus@ National Geographic Magzine

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Asif_k: *

Have you read the hindu scriptures or your comments are based on just hearsay ??
[/QUOTE]

No I have not read gita but have read lot about hinduism and caste...
here is an exerpt

The Bhagavad Gita says this about the varn.as:

[41] The works of Brahmins, Ks.atriyas, Vaishyas, and Shudras are different, in harmony with the three powers of their born nature.
[42] The works of a Brahmin are peace; self-harmony, austerity, and purity; loving-forgiveness and righteousness; vision and wisdom and faith.

[43] These are the works of a Ks.atriya: a heroic mind, inner fire, constancy, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity and noble leadership.

[44] Trade, agriculture and the rearing of cattle is the work of a Vaishya. And the work of the Shudra is service.

[chapter 18, Juan Mascaró translation, Penguin Books, 1962]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Utouchables hindus@ National Geographic Magzine

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *

No I have not read gita but have read lot about hinduism and caste...
here is an exerpt

The Bhagavad Gita says this about the varn.as:

[41] The works of Brahmins, Ks.atriyas, Vaishyas, and Shudras are different, in harmony with the three powers of their born nature.
[42] The works of a Brahmin are peace; self-harmony, austerity, and purity; loving-forgiveness and righteousness; vision and wisdom and faith.

[43] These are the works of a Ks.atriya: a heroic mind, inner fire, constancy, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity and noble leadership.

[44] Trade, agriculture and the rearing of cattle is the work of a Vaishya. And the work of the Shudra is service.

[chapter 18, Juan Mascaró translation, Penguin Books, 1962]
[/QUOTE]

so what happened to pakistani brahmins?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Utouchables hindus@ National Geographic Magzine

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *

so what happened to pakistani brahmins?
[/QUOTE]

Rvikz,

In Islam we do not have caste system but you can say we have Shia suni fasad.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Utouchables hindus@ National Geographic Magzine

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *

Rvikz,

In Islam we do not have caste system but you can say we have Shia suni fasad.
[/QUOTE]

nothing to do with religen. a kashmiri muslim will marry a muslim
dalit convert ? technically yes but in real world it wont happen.