USA v. Mexico

How far will this go? I heard Richard Perle say on TV the other day something bluntly along the lines of “we are seeking regime change not only in Iraq, but Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Syria as well.” How can a nation be a role model for anything good with such behavior? I think this article sums it up well (btw, does anyone have more info on what’s going on between Mexico and USA now?):

‘Let them hate as long as they fear’](The New York Times - Breaking News, US News, World News and Videos)

Why does our president condone the swaggering and contemptuous approach to our friends and allies this administration is fostering, including among its most senior officials? Has ‘oderint dum metuant’ really become our motto?" So reads the resignation letter of John Brady Kiesling, a career diplomat who recently left the Foreign Service in protest against Bush administration policy.

“Oderint dum metuant” translates, roughly, as “Let them hate as long as they fear.” It was a favorite saying of the Roman emperor Caligula, and may seem over the top as a description of current U.S. policy. But this week’s crisis in U.S.-Mexican relations - a crisis that has been almost ignored north of the border - suggests that it is a perfect description of President George W. Bush’s attitude toward the world.

Mexico is an enormously important U.S. ally, not just because of its common border, but also because of its special role as a showcase for American ideals. For a century and a half Mexico has - often with good reason - seen its powerful neighbor as an exploiter, if not an outright enemy. Since the first Bush administration, however, the United States has made great efforts to treat Mexico as a partner, and Mexico’s recent track record of economic stability and democracy is, and should be, a source of pride on both sides of the border.

But Mexico’s seat on the UN Security Council gives it a vote on the question of Iraq - and the threats the Bush administration has made to get that vote are quickly destroying any semblance of good will.

Last week The Economist quoted an American diplomat, who warned that if Mexico didn’t vote for a U.S. resolution it could “stir up feelings” against Mexicans in the United States. He compared the situation to that of Japanese-Americans who were interned after 1941, and wondered whether Mexico “wants to stir the fires of jingoism during a war.”

Incredible stuff, but easy to dismiss as long as the diplomat was unidentified. Then came President Bush’s interview Monday with Copley News Service. He alluded to the possibility of reprisals if Mexico didn’t vote America’s way, saying that “I don’t expect there to be significant retribution from the government” - emphasizing the word “government.” He then went on to suggest that there might, however, be a reaction from other quarters, citing “an interesting phenomena taking place here in America about the French ? a backlash against the French, not stirred up by anybody except the people.”

And Bush then said that if Mexico or other countries oppose the United States, “there will be a certain sense of discipline.”

These remarks went virtually unreported by the ever- protective U.S. media, but they created a political firestorm in Mexico. The White House has been frantically backpedaling, saying that when Bush talked of “discipline” he wasn’t making a threat. But in the context of the rest of the interview, it’s clear that he was.

Moreover, Bush was disingenuous when he described the backlash against the French as “not stirred up by anybody except the people.” On the same day that the report of his interview appeared, The Financial Times carried the headline, “Hastert Orchestrates Tirade Against the French.” That’s Dennis Hastert, the speaker of the House of Representatives. In fact, anti-French feeling has been carefully fomented by Republican officials, Rupert Murdoch’s media empire and other administration allies. Can you blame Mexicans for interpreting Bush’s remarks as a threat to do the same to them?

So oderint dum metuant it is. I could talk about the foolishness of such blatant bullying - or about the incredible risks, in a multiethnic, multiracial society, of even hinting that one might encourage a backlash against Hispanics. And yes, I mean Hispanics, not Mexicans: Once feelings are running high, do you really think people will politely ask a brown-skinned guy with an accent whether he is a citizen or, if not, which country he comes from?

But my most intense reaction to this story isn’t anger over the administration’s stupidity and irresponsibility, or even dismay over the casual destruction of hard-won friendships. No, when I read an interview in which the U.S. president sounds for all the world like a B-movie villain - “You have relatives in Texas, yes?” - what I feel, above all, is shame.

Last week The Economist quoted an American diplomat, who warned that if Mexico didn't vote for a U.S. resolution it could "stir up feelings" against Mexicans in the United States. He compared the situation to that of Japanese-Americans who were interned after 1941, and wondered whether Mexico "wants to stir the fires of jingoism during a war."

This is exactly the arrogance that is leading to unprecedented resentment and anger from country after country against the US. Things have become so desperate for the American regime that they are overtly suggesting consequences for the probably 20 million or so American's of Mexican heritage. Even Bush himself is giving heavy hints of consequesnces against Mexico or any other country that dares vote against the US position. Shameful.

“Has ‘oderint dum metuant’ really become our motto?” So reads the resignation letter of John Brady Kiesling, a career diplomat who recently left the Foreign Service in protest against Bush administration policy.
There was a thread regarding Kiesling by Awam ki Awaz.

And Bush then said that if Mexico or other countries oppose the United States, “there will be a certain sense of discipline.”
What does he mean by “discipline”? :confused: i never realized it could reach to this extent between Mexico and the US. Rather sad i must say. IF, for NO other reason than the usual depressingly selfish motivation, Bush should realize this can create a backlash against him (for the next elections) vis-a-vis the ethnic groups his policies might further isolate.

Almost 80% of Mexicans are against America’s war plans against Iraq, but 90% of Mexico’s exports are with the US, and so enormous economic pressure is likely to be applied.

http://www.economist.com/world/la/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1608395

Mexico, the United States and Iraq

WHEN it won its non-permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council, Mexico never thought it would come to this. Over the next two weeks, as the debate over the second resolution on Iraq is played out in New York, it has to take perhaps the most difficult diplomatic decision it has ever made: whether to support the resolution, as America demands, abstain, or vote against. Mexico’s position is trickier than any other member’s. On the one hand, it has actively sought in recent years to become America’s best partner and friend. Back in 2001, which now seems a painfully long time ago, President George Bush famously remarked that America had “no closer relationship”. Why, his amigo President Vicente Fox, in his boots and jeans, was obviously a closet Texan. On the other hand comes the tug of old Mexico: a country with a strong history of non-interventionism, even isolationism, mixed with what many Mexicans like to think of as a tradition of pacifism, especially in foreign affairs. After weeks of toing and froing, Mr Fox’s government must now show where it stands.

The American connection is all-consuming. The two countries celebrate the tenth anniversary of the North American Free-Trade Agreement (NAFTA) this year, which has linked Mexico umbilically to its neighbour. Almost 90% of its exports go to America. About 20m people of Mexican descent live in America, more than a fifth of Mexico’s own population. America bailed out Mexico when the peso collapsed in 1995. Why on earth, ask many Americans, should Mexico think twice about supporting America now? When Mexico sought a Security Council seat in 2001, as part of Mr Fox’s new strategy of playing a role on the world stage, America naturally endorsed the idea. Now, in Mr Bush’s view, it is time to live up to those new responsibilities. He is exasperated by Mexico’s lack of support, as he made clear last Saturday in a blunt phone call to Mr Fox. An abstention will not do, either. In the words of one American official, “An abstention is a failure to step up to the plate and play the game.” But the exasperation is not all one-way. One of the great ambitions of Mr Fox’s government, elected in 2000, was to get a comprehensive immigration accord with the United States, protecting the rights of an estimated 3m-5m illegal immigrants in America. This was always going to be an uphill task, but after September 11th 2001, when America began to distrust all brown-skinned incomers, talks on such an agreement stalled completely. The resulting resentment and frustration in Mexico have fed into the lack of sympathy for America over Iraq.

In a poll last week for Consulta Mitofsky, 79% of those asked thought that Mexico should not support America. Mr Fox, who faces vital congressional elections in July, reads such figures keenly. Some foreign-policy experts, such as Jorge Montaño, Mexico’s ambassador to the UN during the last Gulf war, fear that the president’s “macho statements” against the war have boxed him in: unable to consider the second resolution on its merits, he will simply have to abstain. However, the Americans are confident that it will not come to that. The administration is not doing anything so vulgar as putting cash on the table, as in the case of Turkey. But it is reminding Mexico of the possible effects if it fails to come through. A stream of American officials, sounding much more hostile than sorry, have been trekking south to argue the point. Most of the pressure, though, is coming from the grass-roots. Rogelio Ramírez de la O, an independent Mexican economist, argues that American boardrooms are discussing whether to cut back future investment in Mexico if the Mexicans disappoint them. One American diplomat has given warning that a Mexican No could “stir up feelings” against Mexicans in the United States. He draws comparisons with the Japanese-Americans who were interned after 1941, and wonders whether Mexico “wants to stir the fires of jingoism during a war”. The Americans note that Mr Fox, for all his political posturing and his genuine moral difficulties (as a firm Catholic, he can hardly ignore what the pope is saying about war and peace), has always left himself some wriggle-room. On February 25th he seemed to make his strongest statement so far against Iraq, arguing that “the world wants peace, but only the disarmament of the Iraqis can assure that peace.” If Mr Fox is going to accept the logic of his vaunted position as America’s closest ally, there will be no option in the end but to vote with America. But he had better start making the case very soon. With public opinion so unprepared, a Yes vote could do him and his party great short-term damage. It might also earn him a longer-term reputation for leadership.

Wow what a joke. As a American Mexican all I can say is Fox is in deep crap without a veto. He has proven to be a true fool through his term thus far. Comparing the Japanese to today is pure BS.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Ex-Army:

Comparing the Japanese to today is pure BS.
[/QUOTE]

Who was making the comparisons, do you know? Your condemnation should be directed towards them...

....Bush then said that if Mexico or other countries oppose the United States, "there will be a certain sense of discipline."
What does he mean by this?

testing

Such a late stage in this crisis, and still the US has not managed to win it’s southern neighbour round voting yes.

Mexico says it will continue to look for compromise on Iraq

Mexico hasn’t changed its position on Iraq and is still searching for a compromise solution that will please all U.N. Security Council members, the Mexican foreign secretary said Friday. Luis Ernesto Derbez’s comments came as Chile circulated a compromise proposal on Iraq that the United States quickly rejected it, casting further doubt on any U.N. backing for war. The Chilean proposal, a copy of which was obtained by The Associated Press, would give Iraq up to 30 days to complete five disarmament tasks. The efforts would be verified by inspectors and then judged by the council. Speaking in Mexico, Derbez said Mexico would continue to work with Chile to find a “consensus solution within the United Nations.”

“We haven’t changed,” he said. “We aren’t going to change our position, and this is what we are working for.” He said officials from President Vicente Fox’s administration had been meeting with members of Congress, who — along with the Mexican public — largely oppose a war with Iraq. However, many Mexicans worry that a vote against war will sour U.S. public opinion toward its southern neighbor. Derbez defended Mexico’s role on the Security Council, and said the country was at its diplomatic peak. “Imagine if we weren’t here,” he said. “We would be subject to who knows who carrying out this type of negotiations.” Mexico has called for the disarmament of Saddam Hussein, but stopped short of endorsing military action against Iraq. Fox underwent back surgery Wednesday, but has monitored international events from his hospital bed. Fox’s spokesman, Rodolfo Elizondo, said Friday the president was being informed of the latest developments on Iraq. He added that Mexico was waiting until “the last moment because there might be a solution that doesn’t take us to war, but to peace and disarmament.” Fox, who took his first steps Friday since his surgery, was expected to return to the presidential residence this weekend.