Just came across this article by Ayaz Amir at dawn.com. It clearly shows utter lack of Pakistani knowledge about their biggest donor, and the closest ally. I wonder why have we failed in producing a core group of academics and experts on USA in the last 50 years of working together.
May be it is the reflection of the lazy attitude of Pakistani intellectuals that the most quotable expert on USA is our very own Hamida Gul.
Anyway, here are the quotations from Mr. Amir’s column.
**And the winner is… ** By Ayaz Amir .
And according to Mr. Amir, how could Kerry “trash” Bush was that
Mr. Amir totally fails to understand how Bush and Kerry prepared for the debates. How their advisors conducted zillions of polls on every issue and accordingly formulated the responses.
Poll after poll shows that Americans still support war on Iraq. That is precisely why Kerry promises to conduct even bigger war on Iraq and even closer support for Israel.
It is time that Pakistani intellectuals came out of their commie leftie cocoons and analyzed America from American point of view. Otherwise Pakistan will ever live with this dichotomy where military is with USA while the rabid-lefties dominate the intellectuals.
Reminds of the song:
So close
Yet so far away
We believe in tomorrow and a better day
We lie down to sleep so close
Yet so far away
(Hall and Oats)
polls after polls can be manipulated to suit the outcome of choice.. given Howard Dean's sudden rise in popularity it wouldn't have been difficult for Kerry to run on an anti-war platform .. it's just that he's the hired fighter to take the fall to make it all look legit.
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*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
polls after polls can be manipulated to suit the outcome of choice.. ...
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Understood!
However this thread is about Pakistani analysis of American trends. The point is to show how Pakistani intellectuals have consistently failed to rationally approach their biggest Ally (the USA). Mr. Amir clearly failed to grasp why Kerry took a particular stance on Iraq war during the debates.
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*Originally posted by ravage: *
i presume that any american editor agreeing with mr. amir would also need to learn how to approach america?
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"Approach America"? hahah. Baba! American editor is already in America. Kapeesh!
As long as US relations to Pakistan are either through popular culture and/or through dictators and not through common & shared vision of national values, there is little hope for both the nations to get closer.
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*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
As long as US relations to Pakistan are either through popular culture and/or through dictators and not through common & shared vision of national values, there is little hope for both the nations to get closer.
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Agreed!
Just wondering what stops Pakistanis to present non-dictators in the relationship.
"common & shared vision of national values" sound very nice. Just curious what stops Pakistan to share the vision and national values with USA?
When I was reading AMir’s article, I had the exact same feelings. Just Shut up AMir. He is sitting ten thousand miles away in his drawing room in Islamabad but still he thinks that he is qualified to set up a winning strategy for a seasoned politician such as John Kerry. Which punch is he talking about in his article? If, as per Mr. AMir’s advice, John Kerry had decided to launch more severe attack on Iraq war, he would be in more trouble. American people do not like criticizing a war too much when their troops are in the middle of that war.
Ayaz AMir said in his article:
“Iraq should have skewered Bush. Instead, it seems to have skewered Kerry for Kerry, just couldn’t bring himself to say hard and loud enough that Iraq was a disaster which should never have been started in the first place but having been started, should be ended as quickly as possible - an exit strategy more important than reinforcing failure.”
What an ignorant person Ayaz AMir is. It seems to me that he did not watch even one debate and now trying to fill up his weekly column to make some money. I followed all there debates closely and John Kerry was talking about the same points repeatedly in all three debates. Remember when Kerry said that this is a wrong war, at wrong place and in a wrong direction. How clear John Kerry could be on this issue? In all three debates Kerry emphasized that war should be the last resort and that if he were elected he would try to bring the troops back home as soon as possible by sharing more responsibilities with the allies and by training Iraqis more aggressively at a much faster pace.
Amir then says that:
“Which really means that Bush and his war party get away with murder. They have destroyed Iraq and brought death and destruction to its people.”
It is not what you think Mr. AMir. The point is what American people think and unfortunately majority of them think that USA forces are doing a great job by helping poor Iraqi people and getting rid of saddam hussain. I know it is wrong but politicans do not follow your or my advice. Given that John Kerry is running for the white house, honestly speaking, bow much room is left for him to follow Mr. AMir’s advice.
All Pakistani so-called intellectuals want USA to condemn Israel. Wake up and smell the coffee. Its not gonna happen in our life times. They keep talking about USA’s double policy about Kashmir. They want USA to protect Muslim’s interests. The want USA to allow Iran to build nuclear weapons bcause israal has them. Why should USA do that? USA will do whatever suits her long-term interests.
Not that I support USA foreign policies but I hate condemning USA for every problem in our world. Because when we chose to adopt such a negative approach of blame-shifting, we in a way sidetrack ourselves of our real problems. Why can’t we reinforce ourselves before taking panga with every one on the name of Islamic ummah? Long time ago we had this discussion at WA forum in which we discussed that we Muslims need to draw a line when it comes to USA bashing. I am posting the link of that discussion here.
its ironic how vehemently armchair critics criticise armchair critics for being armchair critics. you, phoenixdesi, cannot claim to have any more sway, any more knowledge than this journalist. simply because hes writing from karachi does not mean that he doesnt have a television/radio with cable on it. because isnt that primarily the source of information/opinion for americans?
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All Pakistani so-called intellectuals want USA to condemn Israel. Wake up and smell the coffee. Its not gonna happen in our life times. They keep talking about USA’s double policy about Kashmir. They want USA to protect Muslim’s interests. The want USA to allow Iran to build nuclear weapons bcause israal has them. Why should USA do that? USA will do whatever suits her long-term interests.
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alright. how then is America's support of Israel reflective of long term interests? Why would they desire unfriendliness and instability in countries that sustain its oil addiction? what long term interests lie in supporting israel?
please do enlighten us, from your vastly refreshing and singular experience of actually living in america this question, which again is something probably nobody else outside these borders could answer, right? tell me what you bring to the table.
and please also tell me how you turned an editorial on kerry's lacklustre performance in pakistan on how we need to stop bashing America.
alright. how then is America's support of Israel reflective of long term interests? Why would they desire unfriendliness and instability in countries that sustain its oil addiction? what long term interests lie in supporting israel?
and please also tell me how you turned an editorial on kerry's lacklustre performance in pakistan on how we need to stop bashing America.
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Go ask USA policy makers, NOT ME. They believe that it is in USA’s long-term interest to support Israel. That is why they call Israel USA'S GREATEST FRIEND IN MIDDLE EAST. You and I may have different thoughts but frankly speaking who cares about us.
Now why is that? I don’t know but I can tell you one thing for sure. 60 yeas ago, a group of migrants (Jewish migrants) started coming to USA and they, as a group, decided to study medicine, law, and political science. 60 years later, this community has taken the control of American medical system, American Media and American political system.
On the contrary, 50 years ago, another community (Arab and Palestinians Arabs) also started coming to USA. However, majority of these people decided to buy grocery stores and especially liquor stores. Now 50 year later, Mashallah, majority of the liquor stores in USA are owned by Arab brothers. Well, both communities made a choice.
oh, and show your post to one of those people who toe most strongly america's agenda with Israel, and he'll call your analysis racist, half baked and very shallow, like they did with mahathir even though he did a MUCH more comprehensive, much better expression of what you apparently are trying to say.
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*Originally posted by ravage: *
so basically your analysis is I dont know, the jews did it because they're influential?
i think i prefer Ayaz. atleast he has something to contribute.
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well why jews became infulential? why are they controling american media and american politics and we not? There is a reason behind this and we need to do some introspection here.
Instead of criticizing jews for what they have achieved in USA by a careful and long-term planning in last 60 years , we better foucs on improving ourselves as a community. That is all i am suggesting.
And yes . You were absloutly right in one of your earlier posts when you asked how come we dragged israel into this thread. I apologize for this. Now lets get back to the topic. Thanks
one thing, if the jews did in their 'planning', was never be apologetic about who they were. would the slur of 'anti-semite' be so strong if it was acceptable for jews to find faults in themselves? 'self hating jew' is hurled at deviants from the 'plan' not at those who came up with it.
yes we need introspection. introspection on how to counter this onslaught on us.
so for example, one sneakiness adopted by people to further their cause as a community is to blame everyone else. Israel kicks palestinians out, and cries that the europeans were at fault. Presumably then isnt what Muslim columnists do very much part of the 'plan'?
What! So according to your assertion, elected and thus non-dictator BB or PM Sharif was not welcome in the White house?
If my memory serves me right, NS was served lunch, dinner, breakfast etc. on the White House dining table. Pak-USA contacts have to go on, but it is upto Pakistanis for selecting/electing their leadership. Read the news of 1999 and mourn the loss of PM Sharif's government.
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*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
Friendship is a two way street man. D'oh!
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"Two way street" has always been there. Obviously Pakistanis have to know "Chotay Burray kee Tamiz" (etiquettes) when dealing with any big power.
Ayaz Amir is one the best and most accomplished writers in Pakistan, I read his column regularly. Maybe not having his head half way up America's ass can allow for some good fair analysis!
You mention an analysis of America by an American point of view. Wah bhai wah! We have a person here who is more concerned about America's national interests than his own country. In fact that is the case with our Pak govt i.e. Army.
anti yar, then why don't you make a list of things you think Pakistan should do? Something like the following:
1) Get all MAToos in one boat and send 'em to the Pacific
2) Change the constitution with the important article that states any government opposed to USA should be dismantled by the Army
3) Only will of the people like antiobl should be heard in the polls.
4) Change the curency to dollar
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