US Tactics in Iraq condemned by British officers

This is appalling… I suspected that Americans are racist towards Iraqis, but to actually open fire indiscrimately into densely populated residential areas with artillery simply because a few mortar rounds came from there… is just downright sickening.

I’m too angry right now to pass measured balanced comments, I may do so later.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/04/11/wtact11.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/04/11/ixnewstop.html

Senior British commanders have condemned American military tactics in Iraq as heavy-handed and disproportionate.

One senior Army officer told The Telegraph that America’s aggressive methods were causing friction among allied commanders and that there was a growing sense of “unease and frustration” among the British high command.

The officer, who agreed to the interview on the condition of anonymity, said that part of the problem was that American troops viewed Iraqis as untermenschen - the Nazi expression for “sub-humans”.

Speaking from his base in southern Iraq, the officer said: "My view and the view of the British chain of command is that the Americans’ use of violence is not proportionate and is over-responsive to the threat they are facing. They don’t see the Iraqi people the way we see them. They view them as untermenschen. They are not concerned about the Iraqi loss of life in the way the British are. Their attitude towards the Iraqis is tragic, it’s awful.

“The US troops view things in very simplistic terms.** It seems hard for them to reconcile subtleties between who supports what and who doesn’t in Iraq. It’s easier for their soldiers to group all Iraqis as the bad guys. As far as they are concerned Iraq is bandit country and everybody is out to kill them.”**

The phrase untermenschen - literally “under-people” - was brought to prominence by Adolf Hitler in his book Mein Kampf, published in 1925. He used the term to describe those he regarded as racially inferior: Jews, Slaves and gipsies.

Although no formal complaints have as yet been made to their American counterparts, the officer said the British Government was aware of its commanders’ “concerns and fears”.

The officer explained that, under British military rules of war, British troops would never be given clearance to carry out attacks similar to those being conducted by the US military, in which helicopter gunships have been used to fire on targets in urban areas.

British rules of engagement only allow troops to open fire when attacked, using the minimum force necessary and only at identified targets.

The American approach was markedly different: "When US troops are attacked with mortars in Baghdad, they use mortar-locating radar to find the firing point and then attack the general area with artillery, even though the area they are attacking may be in the middle of a densely populated residential area.

"They may well kill the terrorists in the barrage but they will also kill and maim innocent civilians. That has been their response on a number of occasions. It is trite, but American troops do shoot first and ask questions later. They are very concerned about taking casualties and have even trained their guns on British troops, which has led to some confrontations between soldiers.

“The British response in Iraq has been much softer. During and after the war the British set about trying to win the confidence of the local population. There have been problems, it hasn’t been easy but on the whole it was succeeding.”

The officer believed that America had now lost the military initiative in Iraq, and it could only be regained with carefully planned, precision attacks against the “terrorists”.

“The US will have to abandon the sledgehammer-to-crack-a-nut approach - it has failed,” he said. "They need to stop viewing every Iraqi, every Arab as the enemy and attempt to win the hearts and minds of the people.

“Our objective is to create a stable, democratic and safe Iraq. That’s achievable but not in the short term. It is going to take up to 10 years.”

Maddy…the brits are there (ask yourself why are they there in the first place) to polish the American soldier’s shoes and make them tea. What the hell have they done in Iraq to begin with? Why don’t they just go back home? Brits might be very good at unfoiling terrorist threats at home (every day I read about M11.5 and Scotland backyard arresting 8 or 10 British citizens of Pakistani origin) but they haven’t got a clue on how to fight a war. Is there any officers in the British forces of Pakistani origin? Is there any? Is there any in Iraq?

Did you know about your beloved thugs have taken 3 Pakistani hostages? That's how much they love Pakistanis. Which is still not more than your hatred for the US.

It would be heart breaking for many of the saddam lovers on this forum to know how much he respect india and hated pakistan.

I’m sure it would :slight_smile:

Good thing then that I’m not a Saddam lover, and that I’ve never offered up any praise for him at all :slight_smile:

And Madhanee - those three Pakistanis were delivering supplies for the US forces, and are Collaborators who deserve worse than what they got - Release from custody today

I’m actually ashamed that those 3 guys were Pakistanis - ashamed that any of my own countryment would collaborate with the Occupation.

PS: You may ask me what the British have done in Iraq - but I can point out that they haven’t cordoned off a populated city and pummeled it with heavy weapon fire, unlike the USA.

I'm actually ashamed that those 3 guys were Pakistanis - ashamed that any of my own countryment would collaborate with the Occupation.<<<

Maddy you must be very proud then of the 8 Pakis arrested last week with tons of fertilizer and plans to blow up London. You would have loved it, had they carried out their plans. Yes? or NO?

You must also be madly in love with Mushy, who is our partner in crime. We think so much alike yaar.

http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145052#post2382358


[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
You may ask me what the British have done in Iraq - but I can point out that they haven't cordoned off a populated city and pummeled it with heavy weapon fire, unlike the USA.
[/QUOTE]


Does anyone know if the USA is being advised by the Israelies? They seem to be using the same tactics of starving the Muslims and bombing innocent? I can underdstand the US wanting to take out the people that killed the 4 Americans recently, but there seems to be a lot of similarity between US and Israel - i.e killing hundreds of Muslim women and children to take revenge against a few terrorists?

Why is this?

I'm not proud of the British government and Im not feeling too hot abt teh US either

theyre in it together, but if the US is and i quote "cordoned off a populated city and pummeled it with heavy weapon fire" doing something extremely dense (as is usually the case, Afghanistan etc) which is killing hundreds of innocent civillians, and still denying it - I'm not so surprised at all the anti-US sentiment

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Gupta: *

*Does anyone know if the USA is being advised by the Israelies? They seem to be using the same tactics of starving the Muslims and bombing innocent? I can underdstand the US wanting to take out the people that killed the 4 Americans recently, but there seems to be a lot of similarity between US and Israel - i.e killing hundreds of Muslim women and children to take revenge against a few terrorists? *
[/QUOTE]

Well of course there is. The American genocide of 700 plus mainly civilians in Falluja is one of the biggest massacres since Sabra and Shatila.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Xara: *
I'm not proud of the British government and Im not feeling too hot abt teh US either

theyre in it together, but if the US is and i quote "cordoned off a populated city and pummeled it with heavy weapon fire" doing something extremely dense (as is usually the case, Afghanistan etc) which is killing hundreds of innocent civillians, and still denying it - I'm not so surprised at all the anti-US sentiment
[/QUOTE]

That's how you fight and win a war. Welcome to the real world.