US strikes Abubakr Baghdadi

Re: US strikes Abubakr Baghdadi

I agree with what you said, except you cannot deny the fact the US involvement in the region is creating more Al Bagdadis. Had Saddam Hussian not being ousted Iraq would today be lot more stable and 1 million Iraqis would still be alive.

Re: US strikes Abubakr Baghdadi

In recent times LEJ and Jundullah have gained spacein Balochistan but that has to do with US policies towards Iran. The Baloch nationalist otherwise used to be seculars. How can we call Khalid sheikh Muhammad a Baloch? He was probably born in Kuwait and spent all his formative years there. Went to Western countries for studies and returned brainwashed. It seems as if he could be from families of Baluch who have settled in the middle east for years. You can find quite a few in Oman who are dual nationals of both countries.

Re: US strikes Abubakr Baghdadi

Not directly linking Baluchistan with ISIS but ISIS has benefited much from US policies in Syria, just like insurgents in Baluchistan are being supported to counter Iran.

Again, blaming USA is not enough. There are weaknesses in ourselves that others take advantage of. We need to address those ... and ECONOMICS is the key now, not GUNS.

Re: US strikes Abubakr Baghdadi

**Agreed

Re: US strikes Abubakr Baghdadi

US has meddled all over the world creating big messes - from Panama to Afghanistan. No one doubts this. But the big problem is why do all these power vacuums in these middle eastern countries get filled quickly by so many religious extremists - taliban, ISIS, younameit - out to bring violent kinds of shariah and fearlessly mounting campaigns to turn back the social clock by centuries. the main problem here isn't the US. it is endemic. US didn't invent the shia sunni feuds in Iraq despite what people like psyah and lal topi will tell you. Nor is having a tyrant like Saddam (himself an US ally gone rogue) in place for stability a real peaceful solution.

Re: US strikes Abubakr Baghdadi

Am not an expert in history. But I think the British had something to do with the problems in the middle east on the way they carved up the region.

Re: US strikes Abubakr Baghdadi

I agree with you as for as the religious extremism goes, but lot of that came out as result of British colonial occupation of the ME. The 2 extremist religious ideologies that dominate ME are safalists and wahabis...they are linked to politics of the region. Majority of the ME kings are British appointed families (eg Al Saud family) & to appease religious crazies they joined likes of al-Wahhab (who was mullah Omer of his time) to spread hateful ideology all over the world using petrodollars. The US also helped in that when they were supporting same people in 80s as freedom fighters. So, you cannot say the west has nothing to do with what is happening to the ME. Btw, did you know those who directly attacked the US on 19/11...15 were Saudis not Iraqis. If there was country that deserved to be bombed after 911 it was Saudi Arabia, but the US did not bomb them. Why?

Re: US strikes Abubakr Baghdadi

Fate of Al Baghdadi remains unknown | GulfNews.com

Re: US strikes Abubakr Baghdadi

Agree with most of what you said here. But remember what happened in Egypt. They fought for and got democracy and they elected a party that refuses to fall in line with the Western world view. This party gets their asses kicked and replaced with the same junta that people wanted to replace in the first place. Now you can argue, US had nothing to do with it, and I will call you naive. Now what kind of message does that send to the next generation. You can have a say in your own affairs, as long as it is what we say. The new generation looks at it this way. Two evils: one local and one foreign. They will always go with the local one, since they 'know' it. This is the the kind of despair that spawns insurgencies and it is not unique to this part of the world. That is the reason I dont think ISIS will go away if you kill their leaders. There is always someone out there to cash in on this despair and helplessness.

The problem is not so much about meddling but disengaging. In the past, in Nicaragua, Panama, Korea, Cambodia etc. US managed to successfully disengage itself. Hollywood made a few movies and people wrote books and that was the end of it. In middle east, the US does not seem to be able to disengage. And why would that be?

Re: US strikes Abubakr Baghdadi

President Obama on ISIL - Nov 10th - Thoughts on the video?

http://www.defense.gov/video/default.aspx?videoid=373149

Haroon Ahmad
DET - U.S. Central Command
www.facebook.com/centcomurdu

Re: US strikes Abubakr Baghdadi

Heard from BBC today that Iraqi officials were quick to announce that Baghdadi is wounded in the attack. However US is holding its confirmation till some strong proof comes out. I guess iraqis are more like Pakistanis when they used to announce they’ve captured Alqa..'s #2](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=2) every now and then in 2000s.

Re: US strikes Abubakr Baghdadi

As a side note, isn't that sort of white washing their role in problems around the world a bit of a problem in itself? The old "I know, but..."... I mean, asking Muslims why the nuts fill in the void is fair, but isn't it more concerning that Americans are so quick to violence themselves even when there is no good reason for it? Why is that a matter of civil debate, but when ISIS and their ilk pop up, debate must end, and Muslims must condemn and preferably act? Sounds like an implied double standard...how can anyone sensibly retort when the decks are so stacked?

But that is an aside. Swallowing pride, and the knee jerk desire to defend, I must say I agree. There is a problem:

[quote]

But the big problem is why do all these power vacuums in these middle eastern countries get filled quickly by so many religious extremists - taliban, ISIS, younameit - out to bring violent kinds of shariah and fearlessly mounting campaigns to turn back the social clock by centuries.
the main problem here isn't the US. it is endemic.

[/quote]

Yes. It is endemic. There is no political culture aside from autocracy or religious. There is no rational assessment of what needs to be done in order to get a functioning society going, and self sufficient at the very least in terms of it's survival, let alone being competitive.

As we see in Syria, politics is key and if the key is not held, failure will result. Politics is the exercise of reconciling differences, whereas the only alternative to the autocratic tyrannies in Muslim countries is the faux "religious" discourse of enforcing harmony through the homogeneity of the one "right way" to practice Islam. One thing about these folks, though, is that they're reactionary. Truly. There may not be much in terms of strategy or sanity in their thinking, but they will show up to a fight, no matter how ill prepared or over matched. Sounds noble the way I put it, but I truly think they just make a big problem...bigger. These are the guys who are making a mess, and fellow Muslims are the primary ones suffering.

Your question is loaded: turning back the social clock and all. Me being a chauvinist, no thanks...we'll make that call for ourselves. But, I want us to be in a position to make that call without outside harassment. And there, if you care to point out how much of a mess the Muslim world is, I can't help but agree. And that is our fault...so I do agree it's insane to blame the US for our problems. It's not their job to enrich us, to strengthen us, to protect us, etc. Outside meddling should be expected...open warfare against us should be expected. Not be paranoid gits, but to mobilize and ensure that such won't happen without inflicting serious harm on those who would try. But that requires work...and organization. And you won't get that kind of mobilization without having, (going full circle), a proper political culture that moves us in that direction.

I've simplified many things, but that is, imho, why we're in the state we are in. Fixating on how we got there, and who did it, and so on...though easy to emote on, won't really get us anywhere.

Re: US strikes Abubakr Baghdadi

Thats his views as a CinC for US so ofcourse Americans certainly appreciate that but as a global perspective he has to elaborate why ISIS is a threat to entire world and the reasons why the world has to get united against these blood-thirsty animals.