US Spy Plane Crashes In Iran

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5091094,00.html

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - A U.S. Air Force U-2 spy plane has crashed in southwest Asia while returning to its base, killing the pilot, the military said Wednesday.

The cause of Tuesday night’s crash was under investigation, U.S. Central Command said in a statement.

One official said the location of the crash was not released because ``host nation sensitivities’’ were involved.

The Central Command’s statement used the term ``southwest Asia,‘’ which can be used as a substitute for describing the Middle East.

The pilot was returning to a base from a mission in support of Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan.

One official said the location of the crash was not released because ``host nation sensitivities’’ were involved.

``The specific location is not releasable due to host nation sensitivities,‘’ U.S. Air Force Capt. David W. Small, a Central Command spokesman, said in an e-mail when asked for more information.

In Washington, Lt. Col. Barry Venable, a Pentagon spokesman, said the plane had completed a mission related to U.S. operations in Afghanistan and crashed as it was returning to its base, the location of which he did not disclose.

A U.S. security team was at the site of the crash, he said. American U-2s operate out of a base in the United Arab Emirates, although U.S. military officials refuse to discuss this fact at the UAE’s request.

Ok, Iran is not mentioned. But it does say that for the sensitivities of the host nation, the UAE, the crash site is not being revealed.

This means that the plane crashed in a country, which would have relations strained with the UAE if they discovered planes fromt he UAE were overflying them.

Routes from the UAE to Afghanistan go through either Iran or Pakistan

The US pretty much already has free rights for non-combat aircraft to overfly Pakistan, plus Pakistan would make a public showing of how it was helping the USA through crash wreckage recovery.

Only Iran would be genuinely pissed off. It would be particularly hostile by the UAE to host spy planes flying over Iran, since the UAE and Iran have territorial disputes.

In fact, this makes me suspect that the U-2 was not even ever over Afghanistan - it was probably surveying Iran. After all, the U-2 has sufficient range to take off from the UAE, overfly Pakistan and still survey and spot in Afghanistan. The only reason why a U-2 would need to be over Iran would be if Iran was the surveillance target.

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Re: US Spy Plane Crashes In Iran

^^ In OG's thread dealing with the search for Bin Laden in Pakistan, I surmised the U2 was conducting a mission over Pakistan. Host nation sensitivities come into serious play there as well.

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Re: US Spy Plane Crashes In Iran

Gosh, why would the US spy on Iran? Everyone knows that Iran's nuclear program is peaceful right?

and, I think there is a big push on to find OBL. Afghanistan/Pakistan is still a good bet.

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reminds me of the tabas event, where american helicopters crashed into each other in the desert, back in the 80's. Their higly secret mission was a coup d'etat that had to be aborted so fast, leaving the dead behind.

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Re: US Spy Plane Crashes In Iran

For surveillance over Pakistan though, the Predator drone has been used before and probably still continues to be used. Pakistan has only ever strongly protested against Predator usage in pakistani airspace when those drones are armed.

Furthermore, Pakistan has given carte blanche for non-combat related usage of Pakistani airspace to the USA - this covered reconnaisance as well, hence the Predator flights.

There is little benefit to using a U-2 for surveying Pakistan. For missions deeper within Iran, on the other hand…

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^^ That's a good point. However, the Predator is a low flying easy to spot surveillance aircraft. It's range of surveillance is also more limited and targetted than the U2. If the US was looking in a general area for movement from OBL to pinpoint his location, a U2 might be just the thing.

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Re: US Spy Plane Crashes In Iran

Maddy, The only problem with the Predator is that it is not terrific at high altitudes, it must be under positive command, and in mountainous areas it can quickly go behind a peak and contol can be lost. If you want to survey at 14k feet plus, you need to use the U2 or a Global Hawk. I suspect that the Global Hawks are flown out of that Uzbek base that is so controversial. A lot will be told on where the plane is recovered. If it is in southern Iran, it is quite probable that it was taking a short cut back from Afghanistan.

Next step, feral children jumping on wreckage, and huge media blast from the crash site.

Good map here:

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Re: US Spy Plane Crashes In Iran

Again though, if the U-2 went down in Pakistan, then the Pakistan government would be making a big show and dance of how they are helping recover the plane and/or corpse.

The only suggestion that it "might" be Pakistan is the claim that a US team is already at the crash site - a US team could easily get to a crash site in Pakistan, but much less so to one in Iran. Alternatively, this claim could be a stalling tactic whilst damage control measures are put in place.

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Re: US Spy Plane Crashes In Iran

None of these points are accurate.

The early models of the Predator had an operational ceiling of 25,000 feet, with the later Predator-B models capable of operating at almost 50,000 feet. At either of these heights it is small enough and quiet enough to be completely undetectable to a man on the ground.

Nor does the Predator need to be under positive command, one of the requirements was that it should be capable of autonomous take off, flight, and landing through pre-programmed instructions if needed.

Nor are mountains any barrier to maintaining positive command of the Predator. As well as conventional radio transmission/receiving equipment that can be blocked by terrain, the Predator also contains ku-band satellite transmission/receiving equipment so as to enable constant positive command regardless of terrain.

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Re: US Spy Plane Crashes In Iran

Actually if the plane crashed in Pakistan, particularly in a remote area, there would be no need for a press release. They would put some US and Paksitani troops in some helicopters, fly to the site, clean up and avoid the press. Putting on a “big show” is good for the perception of Pakistan in the US, but bad for domestic consumption. I suspect that the press release was to beat the Iranians to the punch, and to start some damage control as we negociate with the Iranians to get the body back.

Frankly, when the US retired the sr-71s, it was with the presumption that they had something better. It would not suprise me at all if it was not a U2, but something much more advanced.

Edit Maddy, that is not right:

Predator is a long-dwell UAV operating in excess of 24 hours. That’s equivalent to flying 400 nautical miles, hanging out for over 14 hours, and then flying home the other 400 nautical miles. It operates usually around 15,000 feet, although it can fly as high as 25,000 feet. The payload is about 450 pounds. Predator is flown manually a pilot with a stick controls the aircraft.

With mountain altitudes exceding 14k ft, any propeller driven plane will be compromised. The wind shears in the mountains are tough, and there is not much reserve power in thin air. Many Predators have been lost due to wing icing. A jet propelled platform is inherently better at high altitudes. Now, if they discover a camp at 5k or 6k, then the armed Predator is a perfect choice. But they have lost over half of the Predators put into service in the mountains of Afghanistan. It just doesn’t work that well in those conditions.

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Re: US Spy Plane Crashes In Iran

Most likely shot down.....Iran has the same SA-2 SAM that both Cuba and Russia used to shoot down U2s over their respective terriotories....

Do Indians say "Yaar"
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wherever it crashed, I'm sure China would like to get its hand on whats left ..

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Doubtful, the U2 is a notoriously hard to fly aircraft:

"The crash of an American U-2 spy plane over southwest Asia on Tuesday has highlighted issues about the reliability of what is generally regarded as a militarily essential, but extremely uncomfortable and unwieldly aircraft.

The lack of visibility for the pilot, problems of cruising at high altitude and the considerable assistance required to land the surveillance aircraft mean that, by the US Air Force’s own admission, it is the world’s most difficult plane to fly.

But recent versions of the U-2 have vastly improved what used to be a dismal safety record

Paul Jackson, editor of Jane’s All the World’s Aircraft, describes flying at this kind of altitude as “balancing on a knife edge”.

The speed parameters are so narrow that there is little room for manoeuvre between flying the plane so fast that it disintegrates and flying it so slowly that it falls out of the sky, he says."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4120100.stm

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If it was the Aurora you wouldn’t have heard about the crash.

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That’s pretty paranoid. The SR-71 was an extremely expensive project only necessitated by the real threat posed by the existence of the USSR.

There is no nation sufficiently hostile to the USA with powerful enough anti-air defences to require something like the SR-71 anymore. Satellite surveillance, UAVs and the U-2 can more than adequately cover all of the USA’s reconnaisance needs for the next 20 years.

Decent Fellow
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Re: US Spy Plane Crashes In Iran

The last plane to publicly be announced out of the Skunk works was the F117, which is 1970's technology in a 1980's platform. I can't imagine that the creators of the worlds most sophisticated aircraft would just stop and twiddle their thumbs.

The SR-71 would have still been useful over North Korea, Iraq, and Iran, it is very unusual for the US to just give up a plane that was unmatched in performance just because it was expensive. That just does not happen in the military. I was at an air show years ago and they had an SR-71 fly over. Very spooky, and it was loafing at sub sonic speeds.

I just think it is very unusual for the US military to be so out front on this announcement. U2's are an intelligence asset. They would not have disclosed a crash publicly without a reason.

anklets.
anklets.
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Re: US Spy Plane Crashes In Iran

The Skunk works were needed in the Cold War because of the geopolitical circumstances. The world is much more stable now. Before the cold war, there were no skunkworks, and we’re back to that now.

Quite simply, there is no enemy of the USA worth spending that much money anymore, nor is there likely to be one in the next 2-3 decades.

It’s the same reason why Britain no longer operates any of the V bombers. There is no enemy left worth using them against. The last operational usage of V bombers was 1 bombing raid by 2 planes against some pathetic latin american country called Argentina about 23 years ago.

There are now more efficient ways of doing those same activities.

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Maddy,

I live in Newport RI. We no longer need Submarines either. Yet we continue to produce new subs, 1) because we can, and 2) to keep an industry working and available incase there is a future need. I can absolutely guarantee you that nobody closed down a legendary manufacturer of high tech aircraft. The f117 was first operational in 1982, and was publicly acknowledged in 1988, and displayed in 1990. What you are essentially saying is that the US has built no clandestine aircraft in 25 years? That is hopelessly naive.

JUNAID JAMSHED AKBAR
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OG, Maddy gets his news in his grocery store.

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To think that our government is NOT producing clandestine aircraft, it's just so unamerican. Inconceivable really.