US Presidential Debates 2004

some live comments from cnn political gurus abt bush:

Bush tried to make a joke about media reports that have said Bush is misleading people...then oddly stopped and chuckled to himself. All across America people are looking at their TV's like the old RCA dog looked at the phonograph -- head cocked, brow furrowed, with a quizzical look on their face.

Bush keeps cracking jokes. He's really funny. He just made a crack about how we shouldn't necessarily trust anything the media says, then he started laughing at himself.

Schieffer just asked President Bush what he'd say to someone whose job just got shipped overseas. Mr. Bush's answer is basically, "Tough luck. You lost the job you need and want and love. Go to community college."

Bush has slipped off of jobs and is now yammering about education. If only he had been as interested in education when he was in school.

Bush claims he never said he didn't think much about Osama bin Laden. Sorry, Mr. President, in a press conference on March 13, 2002, you said (and I quote):

"I don't know where he [bin Laden] is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."

Over to Yankees and RedSox.. Yankees are winning dammit

Clinton loved women…he never cared about their strength…loll…

So I am listening to Fox News now for the spin, and they raise the interesting topic, that in the second debate Bush said that drugs from Canada are not safe.. and today in answer to flu shots, he said the people should get Canadian vaccine... like du'h!?!? Make up your mind, dude! :)

Man, Bush is going to win.

Kerry was too stiff and too repititive. And he didn't smile often.

Bush was more confident and had been trained well this time. He also learned a new word -- "litany."

It's really too bad.

phoenixdesi: he was talking about the Dan Rather scandal

haha did anyone see sean hannity and the DNC chairman dude. they were upto each other throats

gallop poll out

kerry 52% bush 39%

clear winner of the debate

but these debates wont have mushc effect on how people are going to vote, IMO

most of the east coast prolly watched the yankees/redsox game

The debates do and will have effect on the vote. Is it going to be 'enough' to swing the election is unclear.

AJ, Bush won the debates in 2000 but lost the popular vote. Go figure.

How much of middle america watched tonights debate or previous two. I would be interested in the stats.

5Abio, you might be right. I don't claim to know it all.

Though, no matter how much the popular people in US want to go with the popular vote; it is the Electoral College that matters. It is effective & I support it.

Kerry dominated Bush last night. Read this article, it’s written by a Republican:

A week ago, I compared the debates to the final inning of a postseason baseball game. The Democrats trailed entering the ninth. John Kerry led off with a single. John Edwards singled him to third. I’ll need a couple of pinch runners to keep the metaphor going, since Kerry came to the plate again Friday and struck out, leaving runners at the corners. The Bush campaign liked my headline so much—“Strikeout”—that they sent it around to the rest of the press corps.

They won’t be sending this one around. Because tonight President Bush walked the bases full, and Kerry hit a grand slam.

If you’re one of those Bush supporters who just want the good news, you’d better stop here, because the rest of the night was Kerry’s. Let’s start with body language. Kerry’s was excellent. He has improved on this score in every debate. I don’t know why it took him 20 years in office and two years on the presidential campaign trail to look into the camera. Maybe that guy with the tax question in the second debate got him over the hump. Whatever the reason, Kerry is now doing it in the debates and in his ads, and he turns out to be damned good at it. Tonight he explained in simple terms the good things he would do and the bad things he wouldn’t. “Medicare belongs to you,” he told the viewer. “I don’t force you to do anything. … You choose your doctor.” I caught him shaking his head just once. Another time, he grinned inappropriately when Bush was talking about abortion. The rest of his performance was flawless. His answers were crisp. His smiles recalled the good-natured confidence of Ronald Reagan.

Half an hour into the debate, as Kerry spoke about respecting gay people, a look of sincere attention passed across Bush’s face. I remember that look, because it was the only time I saw it. The rest of the night, Bush labored unconvincingly to look as though he was listening. He seemed to be trying to rectify his listless, annoyed performance in the first debate. Eventually, he confirmed that his wife had told him “to stand up straight and not scowl.” But tonight he overcompensated, as Al Gore did after getting bad reviews in the first debate of 2000. Bush blinked, bubbled, giggled, and blurted at odd moments. He grinned strangely as he talked about tax increases, entrenched special interests, defeat in Iraq, and contaminated flu vaccines. He held his chin up and tried to smile each time Kerry rebuked him, but the expression on his face was that of a fraternity pledge struggling to look like he was having a good time in the midst of a spanking. The picture of the senior and junior Bonesmen cried out for the caption: “Thank you, Sir, may I have another?”

After the last debate, I chided Kerry for failing to rebut Bush’s attacks effectively. Not this time. Bush said Kerry would raise taxes; Kerry made clear that he would raise them only for the rich and would cut them for the middle class. Bush said Kerry’s health care plan was government-controlled and would deprive patients of choices; Kerry made clear that it wasn’t and wouldn’t. Bush said Kerry would let other countries veto American security decisions; Kerry made clear that he wouldn’t and that the “global test” he had embraced was simply the “truth standard.” The more Kerry explained himself, the more I came to understand his recovery in the polls. For seven months, Bush buried Kerry under negative ads. Now tens of millions of people who saw those ads are seeing Kerry for themselves. The debates are washing out the ads…

Kerry also won the honesty contest. All politicians distort their opponents’ views. The practical test is whether they’re capable of shame and self-correction once their distortions are exposed. Tonight Bush repeated his widely debunked insinuation that Kerry considered terrorism no more serious than prostitution. In the evening’s most revealing exchange, Kerry complained that “America now is paying already $120 billion—up to $200 billion before we’re finished, and much more probably”—for the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Until now, Kerry has used the $200 billion figure to describe the war’s current cost. He backed off because independent fact checkers calculated that only $120 billion had been spent so far, though $200 billion would probably have to be spent before our troops could get out. How did Bush respond to this concession? By repeating, contrary to the analysis of independent fact checkers, that in the first debate Kerry had said “in order to defend ourselves, we’d have to get international approval.” One candidate yielded to the truth. The other did not.

My favorite moment was Bush’s answer to a question about partisanship. Fifteen minutes in, he joked, “When you’re a senator from Massachusetts, when you’re a colleague of Ted Kennedy, ‘pay-go’ means you [the taxpayer] pay, and he goes ahead and spends.” Later, Bush told Kerry, “Your record is such that Ted Kennedy, your colleague, is the conservative senator from Massachusetts.” A bit later, Bush scoffed, “Only a liberal senator from Massachusetts would say that a 49 percent increase in funding for education was not enough.” Finally, Schieffer asked the candidates what they would do “to bring the nation back together.” Bush replied, “My biggest disappointment in Washington is how partisan the town is. … The No Child Left Behind Act, incredibly enough, was good work between me and my administration and people like Sen. Ted Kennedy.” Pose with Kennedy, punch Kennedy, pose with Kennedy again. Two presidential campaigns—the uniter of 2000 and the steady, principled leader of 2004—self-discredited in 90 minutes.

I lost count of Bush’s goofs—his unexplained allusion to “pay-go,” his recollection of “the buggy and horse days,” and his dead-end, mumbling defense that “Mitch McConnell had a minimum-wage plan that I supported.” When Schieffer asked whether the Bush administration was responsible for the rising cost and declining availability of health care, Bush blurted out, “Gosh, I sure hope it’s not the administration.” And after Kerry observed that “two leading national news networks have both said the president’s characterization of my health care plan is incorrect,” Bush replied, “I’m not so sure it’s credible to quote leading news organizations about—oh, never mind.”

Really. The president of the United States said that.

All the strengths and themes Kerry had failed to clarify in two years of campaigning, he clarified tonight. He spoke frankly and comfortably about his faith. “We’re all God’s children,” he said as he defended the right of gays and lesbians “to live [as] who they were, who they felt God had made them.” He defended his Catholicism against bishops who opposed him. “My faith affects everything that I do,” he said, but “faith without works is dead. … That’s why I fight against poverty. That’s why I fight to clean up the environment and protect this earth. That’s why I fight for equality and justice. … God’s work must truly be our own.” He spoke about family values and rewarding those who “play by the rules.” “Five hundred thousand kids lost after-school programs because of your budget,” he told Bush. “That’s not in my gut. That’s not in my value system.”…
Kerry patched up his troubles with women voters, noting his efforts to get them equal pay for equal work. But his most important assurance to them—and to men—came in his answer to the debate’s sole question about national security. He spoke fluidly of the military’s overextension and the additional special forces and active-duty divisions necessary to alleviate it. He described how he would deploy the National Guard to protect the homeland. He reminded the audience that he was a gun owner and former prosecutor. He paraphrased a terrorism handbook captured from al-Qaida. Everything he said, and the facility with which he said it, conveyed a man ready to assume the presidency in wartime.

By the time the clock had ticked down to 15 minutes, the balance of power onstage had shifted. Kerry was the one talking like a president. He complimented his opponent as a leader and father, pledged to work across the aisle, admitted with a twinkle that “I can sometimes take myself too seriously,” and joked to Schieffer, “The president and you and I are three examples of lucky people who married up.” The audience laughed, and Kerry, growing looser by the minute, took another poke at himself: “And some would say maybe me more so than others.” The audience laughed again, and Kerry relaxed into the smile of a man who has been humbled by the toughest campaign of his life and believes that despite it all, he is about to win. “But I can take it,” he shrugged, beaming through a goofy grin. Bush, sensing that everyone else was having a good time, tried to smile along, but all he could do was twist up one corner of his mouth. His eyes darted around the room as though trying to make sense of a nightmare.

The closing statements confirmed the tide of the race. Kerry spoke like a man closing a deal. He recalled his service to his country, promised “tested, strong leadership that can calm the waters of the troubled world,” and vowed to protect the nation in the tradition of FDR, JFK, and Reagan. Bush spoke like a man pleading for a second chance. He fumbled his opening sentence. He talked about the hard times we’d been through and the good things he’d do in a second term that he hadn’t done in his first. He called for faith and optimism. Kerry ended with the words of a president: “Thank you, goodnight, and God bless the United States of America.” Bush ended with a plea: “I’m asking for your vote. God bless you.”

I wasn’t surprised when the instant polls showed Kerry winning the debate handily. I bet Bush wasn’t, either. …Kerry crushes Bush in the third debate.

Kerry is a better debater, but Bush is a better campaigner..Only time will tell which had more of an impact.

Kerry was right when he said:
“When the president had an opportunity to capture or kill Osama bin Laden, he took his focus off of them, outsourced the job to Afghan warlords, and Osama bin Laden escaped. Six months after he said Osama bin Laden must be caught dead or alive, this president was asked, Where is Osama bin Laden? He said:
‘I don’t know. I don’t really think about him very much. I’m not that concerned.’

And Bush response was:

“Gosh, I just don’t think I ever said I’m not worried about Osama bin Laden. It’s kind of one of those exaggerations.”

Actually Bush lied last night. In a news conference on March 13, 2002, Bush said when asked about the search for the al Qaeda leader: “So I don’t know where he is. You know, I just don’t spend that much time on him, we haven’t heard much from him. … And I wouldn’t necessarily say he’s at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don’t know where he is. I — I’ll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him.”

liar liar pants in fire
:devil: :dixsi:

Boy, Kerry destroyed Bush. That was a bigger blowout than the first debate. Bush was sounding desparate and mostly just attacked Kerry (he's such a liberal!) and stuck to talking points.

Kerry delivered the memorable lines, especially, "The test isn't a percentage increase, the test is whether you get the job done."

Also, Bush made a ridiculous mistake claiming he never said Osama bin Laden no longer worried him. He absolutely did...he was shown saying it in Farenheit 9/11.

3-0 Kerry. :Salute:

Perceptions of people are really quite interesting. For those people who like a liberal domestic agenda, I'm sure they feel Kerry cleaned Bush's clock in the debate. For those with a conservative domestic agenda, they feel exactly opposite.

Who won the debate is really a product of how those in the middle and undecided viewed things. I think Bush did a good job exposing Kerry as a Liberal with a capital L. No Democrat ever wants to wear the big L because they know it is the death sentence among people in the center of American politics because those people are more right of center than left of center in their beliefs.

I thought Bush tore Kerry up on the abortion issue. Kerry's idea of pro-choice, as brought out by Bush, includes opposition to the ban on partial birth abortion. Partial birth abortion is an abominable horrendous practice. You can still respect the pro-choice dictates of Roe v. Wade while trying to limit the type of acceptable procedures and encourage birth over abortion. Bush gave a very good answer on that issue.

Kerry stepped on his own appendage by bringing up Cheney's daughter. The biggest negative ratings on any answer given during any of the debates occured when Kerry did that.

Finally, in the expectations game, I think Bush was a clear winner. No one felt that Bush could even compete in a debate on domestic policy. So what he lost in style points as a debater wasd very much overcome by him outperforming expectations.

None of this will change a Kerry voter to a Bush voter. Nothing that happened will cause Kerry to win over a Bush supporter. The balance of the campaign is ads, appearances and media marketing. Whoever does best in this will win.

according to an abc poll of undecideds though.. 39 percent favour kerry now as opposed to 25 Bush on the basis of this debate.

^^
My guess is that most of the undecideds will remain that way until election day and their favortism will move slightly from one candidate to the other as the days go by.

My own hope is that whoever wins does so in a more definitive fashion than the last election outcome. I'd like to see the popular vote at about 52-48% and the Electoral College winner getting 50+ more votes than the loser.

Why were the two candidates seated on stools for that debate, but for the other two debates they stood behind podiums?

Why o why?

On flu shots... in the second debate, Bush openly went against importing drugs from Canada as they were deemed 'unsafe' but in the third debate he talked about plans of importing flu shot vaccines from Canada. I think Kerry should have pointed it out.

Debate 2 was in a "Town Hall" format, thats why.

Anyway, I thought Kerry looked more Presidential, but Bush tried to display his Texan charm by grinning and giggling and laughing at his own jokes... I am sure the self-deprecating humor works with some voters too. There were some one-line zingers flying here and there (most were factually wrong) but, IMO, the best was the reference to Tony Sopranos. Bush's best one was Ted K as the conservative. These are the kind of irrelevant comments that get struck in some voters minds.