US officalls: Mushrraf's days are numbered.

Seems like the US has given up on Mushrraf.

U.S. souring on Pakistan president
DIPLOMATS DOUBT ADMINISTRATION CAN KEEP POWER
By Helene Cooper, Mark Mazzettiand David Rohde
New York Times
Article Launched: 11/15/2007 02:28:29 AM PST

WASHINGTON - Almost two weeks into Pakistan’s political crisis, Bush administration officials are losing faith that the president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, can survive in office and have begun actively discussing what might come next, according to senior administration officials.

In meetings on Wednesday, officials at the White House, State Department and the Pentagon huddled to decide what message Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte would deliver to Musharraf - and perhaps more importantly, to Pakistan’s Army generals - when he arrives in Islamabad on Friday.

Hope evaporating

Administration officials say they still hope that Negroponte can salvage the fractured arranged marriage between Musharraf and former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto. But in Pakistan, foreign diplomats and aides to both leaders said the chances of a deal between the leaders were evaporating 11 days after Musharraf declared de facto martial law.

Several senior administration officials said that with each day that passes, more administration officials are coming around to the belief that Musharraf’s days in power are numbered and that the United States should begin considering contingency plans, including reaching out to Pakistan’s generals.

More than a dozen officials in Washington and Islamabad from a number of countries spoke on condition of anonymity because of the fragility of Pakistan’s current political situation. The doubts that American officials voiced about whether Musharraf could survive were more pointed than any public statements by the administration, and signaled declining American patience in advance of Negroponte’s trip.

Wary of perceptions

Officials involved in the discussions in Washington said that the Bush administration remained wary of the perception that the United States was cutting back-room deals to install the next leader of Pakistan.

In Pakistan on Wednesday, opposition politician Imran Khan emerged from hiding to the cheers of hundreds of students protesting against Musharraf at a university in Lahore and was quickly seized by hard-line students and turned over to the police.

Bhutto, who on Tuesday called on Musharraf to resign, began on Wednesday the difficult task of trying to rally Pakistan’s fractious opposition into a coordinated movement.

Bhutto, who is under house arrest in Lahore, has contacted the main opposition parties, her party spokeswoman, Sherry Rehman, said in an interview and has received an initial, favorable response.

On Wednesday Musharraf said in an interview with the Associated Press that he would quit as army chief by the end of November, though there remains deep skepticism among many Pakistanis and Western diplomats that he will follow through with such a move.

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf's days are numbered.

The lines in bold ^ tells us the poor situation of our country (which is on US's tukRay for six years) and the role of corp commanders in throne.

US has already working on the successor of Maharaja Musharraf. He/She will be just another pathetic ruler who will continue US policies, just a different face really.

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf's days are numbered.

And this brings democracy in Pakistan and takes power from the military?
musharraf goes, Kiyani will be around.

so you will still have a politically active military, crooked thugs like benazir and nawaz as political forces.

what will change?

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf's days are numbered.

Let's hope he does not drag Pakistan down with him. Looking at his record so far he will not hesitate to do anything to cling onto power.

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf’s days are numbered.

Another interesting article. The US should’ve more senators like Joe Biden.

A little over a year ago President George W. Bush leaned across his podium at a White House press conference and told Pervez Musharraf he was “a strong defender of freedom and the people of Pakistan.” Now he’s sending the Pakistani President quite a different message. Last week, four days after Musharraf declared martial law, Bush called him and said, “you ought to have elections soon, and you need to take off your uniform. You can’t be the President and the head of the military at the same time.” This Friday he is dispatching his Deputy Secretary of State, John Negroponte, to tell Musharraf in person that he needs to do both those things and to restore civilian rule.

The unraveling in Pakistan is testing Bush’s diplomatic abilities, and it’s not just because the crisis is requiring him to confront a leader with whom he has had close ties since 9/11. More importantly, Bush is working without a clear strategy: even at this late date the White House still doesn’t have a plan for protecting American interests in Pakistan without Musharraf. In essence Bush and the White House are winging it, trying to back Musharraf down from the current crisis while coming up with a longer-term approach to securing U.S. interests in the region.

That is a messy process involving multiple meetings between Bush and his top advisors and numerous discussions between staffers at State, the White House, the Pentagon and the CIA. So far, Negroponte’s first goal on the mission this weekend is to try and salvage the prospect of power sharing between Musharraf and Benazir Bhutto. But aides are quietly acknowledging that the U.S. needs to think beyond both those flawed figures.

The problem is deciding what such a world looks like. Three different administration officials involved in the interagency deliberations over Pakistan this week told me there is not yet a clear approach for handling the crisis beyond the immediate diplomacy of Negroponte’s visit. “I don’t want to say the interagency has concluded anything at this point,” said one senior White House official “It’s a very fluid situation.”
The goal at least is clear, even if the administration doesn’t know how to get there. Says one official involved in the interagency discussions: “At the end of the day, how do we get maximum cooperation with the Pakistani government in light of the fact that the most recent National Intelligence Estimate says al Qaeda is trying to reestablish its headquarters in the tribal areas.”

Bush’s aides say the President is flexible and willing to entertain a variety of possible routes forward. “It’s going to take some time to figure out where this ends up,” says press secretary Dana Perino. She says the White House is resisting, “a black and white answer to what is a very gray situation.”

Some in Washington are looking to the military, and in particular Gen. Ashfaq Pervez Kiyani, the deputy chief of the army staff, as a reassuring figure. “On the asset side of the ledger,” says one State department official, “We’ve got a really good relationship with Kiyani. People know him. He has long term political ambitions and he’s patient enough to keep them in the long term.”

But there is dispute in the administration, and in Congress, over whether the U.S. should repeat the personality-based approach that has produced such problems with Musharraf. Senator Joe Biden is pushing for a massive increase in non-military aid and a conditioning of military aid to progress on democracy. Some are pushing that approach in the interagency discussions, but others see the military as the safest bet for the future. Until that debate is sorted out, Bush and his diplomatic team will have to buy time with makeshift diplomacy of the sort unfolding now in Washington.

link

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf's days are numbered.

hopefully it will have a clean ending,
but the question still begs to be answered what will happen after that?
would military influence be decreased?
would we have better leaders emerge?

Looking at the faces at the table, I am not very optimistic at the moment.

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf’s days are numbered.

Ok.

I am sure officials or even senior offcials have names? :hmmm:

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf’s days are numbered.

and if we accept this then we also have to accept the follwing part, which ppl are still not willing to believe…to them she is still some beacon of democracy who is honest, and clean and not dancing like a two bit marionette to someone else’s tune.

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf’s days are numbered.

What really makes me sad is the fact that its not people of Pakistan who will decide who rules them next, but the US Admin.

Bhutto says US diplomat asked her if she could work with Musharraf

Detained opposition leader Benazir Bhutto told The AP on Thursday that Washington is concerned about a power-vacuum in Pakistan if President Gen. Pervez Musharraf is forced to leave office, but said she told a visiting US diplomat that she could not work with the general.

Bhutto made the comment in a telephone interview from the home in Lahore where she is under house arrest, shortly after a visit from Bryan Hunt, the US consul general in the eastern Pakistani city.

“He came to find out whether I could work with Gen. Musharraf, and I told him that it was very difficult to work with someone who instead of taking us toward democracy took us back toward military dictatorship,” she said.

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf's days are numbered.

Clean ending ... what would happen after that? ... Well, what I feel, if America would not toe the line than Pakistan would go its own way, and that would be call clean ending. :)

Would military influence be decreased? Decreased, probably on western front, but might increase within the country.

Would we have better leaders emerge? Maybe, because most present political leaders would not survive complete martial law for next 5 to 10 years.

Well, be optimistic, as there is little one can do with pessimistic mind :)

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf's days are numbered.

smooth bhai, here is whats more dangerous (and has been) IMO:

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf’s days are numbered.

here is the original article, i am amazed that mercury news has changed it, isn’t it copyright issue

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/washington/15policy.html?th=&emc=th&pagewanted=print

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/misc/logoprinter.gif [RIGHT]

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November 15, 2007

**U.S. Is Looking Past Musharraf in Case He Falls **

By HELENE COOPER, MARK MAZZETTI and DAVID ROHDE
This article is by Helene Cooper, Mark Mazzetti and David Rohde.
WASHINGTON, Nov. 14 — Almost two weeks into Pakistan’s political crisis, Bush administration officials are losing faith that the Pakistani president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, can survive in office and have begun discussing what might come next, according to senior administration officials.
In meetings on Wednesday, officials at the White House, State Department and the Pentagon huddled to decide what message Deputy Secretary of State John D. Negroponte would deliver to General Musharraf — and perhaps more important, to Pakistan’s generals — when he arrives in Islamabad on Friday.
Administration officials say they still hope that Mr. Negroponte can salvage the fractured arranged marriage between General Musharraf and former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto. But in Pakistan, foreign diplomats and aides to both leaders said the chances of a deal between the leaders were evaporating 11 days after General Musharraf declared de facto martial law.
Several senior administration officials said that with each day that passed, more administration officials were coming around to the belief that General Musharraf’s days in power were numbered and that the United States should begin considering contingency plans, including reaching out to Pakistan’s generals.
More than a dozen officials in Washington and Islamabad from a number of countries spoke on condition of anonymity because of the fragility of Pakistan’s current political situation. The doubts that American officials voiced about whether General Musharraf could survive were more pointed than any public statements by the administration, and signaled declining American patience in advance of Mr. Negroponte’s trip.
Officials involved in the discussions in Washington said the Bush administration remained wary of the perception that the United States was cutting back-room deals to install the next leader of Pakistan. “They don’t want to encourage another military coup, but they are also beginning to understand that Musharraf has become part of the problem,” said one former official with knowledge of the debates inside the Bush administration.
That shift in perception is significant because for six years General Musharraf has sought to portray himself, for his own purposes, as the West’s best alternative to a possible takeover in Pakistan by radical Islamists.
While remote areas in northwestern Pakistan remain a haven for Al Qaeda and other Islamic militants, senior officials at the White House, the State Department and the Pentagon now say they recognize that the Pakistani Army remains a powerful force for stability in Pakistan, and that there is little prospect of an Islamic takeover if General Musharraf should fall.
If General Musharraf is forced from power, they say, it would most likely be in a gentle push by fellow officers, who would try to install a civilian president and push for parliamentary elections to produce the next prime minister, perhaps even Ms. Bhutto, despite past strains between her and the military.
Many Western diplomats in Islamabad said they believed that even a flawed arrangement like that one was ultimately better than an oppressive and unpopular military dictatorship under General Musharraf.
Such a scenario would be a return to the diffuse and sometimes unwieldy democracy that Pakistan had in the 1990s before General Musharraf seized power in a bloodless coup.
But the diplomats also warned that removing the general might not be that easy. Army generals are unlikely to move against General Musharraf unless certain “red lines” are crossed, such as countrywide political protests or a real threat of a cutoff of American military aid to Pakistan.
Since he invoked emergency powers on Nov. 3, General Musharraf has successfully used a huge security crackdown to block large-scale protests. Virtually all major opposition politicians have been detained, as well as 2,500 party workers, lawyers and human rights activists, and on Wednesday, a close aide to General Musharraf said the Pakistani leader remained convinced that emergency rule should continue.
Pakistan’s cadre of elite generals, called the corps commanders, have long been kingmakers inside the country. At the top of that cadre is Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, General Musharraf’s designated successor as army chief. General Kayani is a moderate, pro-American infantry commander who is widely seen as commanding respect within the army and, within Western circles, as a potential alternative to General Musharraf.
General Kayani and other military leaders are widely believed to be eager to pull the army out of politics and focus its attention purely on securing the country.
Senior administration officials in Washington said they were concerned that the longer the constitutional crisis in Pakistan continued, the more diverted Pakistan’s army would be from the mission the United States wants it focused on: fighting terrorism in the country’s border areas.
The officials said there was growing worry in Washington that the situation unfolding in the mountainous region of Swat, where Islamic militants sympathetic to the Taliban and Al Qaeda are battling Pakistan’s Army, was a sign that General Musharraf — and the Pakistani Army — might be too busy jailing political opponents to fight militants.
The administration officials said they were also dismayed that General Musharraf last week released 25 militants in exchange for 213 soldiers captured by militants in August, and agreed to withdraw soldiers from certain areas of South Waziristan.
Since spring, concern has been growing in the armed forces that General Musharraf’s battle to remain in power and his recent political blunders have cost him popularity with the public and damaged the reputation of the armed forces, Western and Pakistani military analysts say.
The army’s poor performance battling militants in the country’s rugged tribal areas in the northwest has placed enormous strain on the army as well. Hundreds of soldiers have died, dozens have surrendered without a fight and militants have carried out beheadings to demoralize the force.
“The army is getting more and more concerned and worried and disturbed,” said Talat Masood, a retired general and political analyst. “They have a genuine engagement in the tribal belt of Frontier Province and Baluchistan,” he said, referring to armed clashes. “And now they have such a major confrontation between the military and civil sectors of society, and the lines are getting sharper.”
While the military supports the emergency, it is doing so with caution, and there are red lines the army will not cross, Western military officials in Pakistan said. “Kayani is loyal to Musharraf,” said one Western military official. “But also to Pakistan.”
One red line the military would probably not be prepared to cross would be if it were called on to maintain internal security anywhere beyond the areas of the insurgency. If widespread political protests were to emerge, the army could be called out to enforce law and order.
While no large-scale protests have emerged since the emergency was declared, the apparent collapse over the last week of American-backed talks to create a power-sharing deal between Ms. Bhutto and General Musharraf could lead to more street confrontations, diplomats said.
As General Musharraf has refused to lift his emergency declaration, lawmakers in Washington have stepped up threats to freeze aid payments to Islamabad.
“There is widespread disapproval in Congress of these actions,” said Representative Nita M. Lowey, a New York Democrat who is on the House Appropriations Committee. “As long as the emergency rule continues, I don’t know if we can provide direct cash assistance to the Musharraf government.”
But other top Democrats say they are wary about endorsing cuts in aid, citing concern that it could undermine efforts to fight Al Qaeda in Pakistan. And the Western military official in Pakistan warned that an aid cutoff could anger Pakistan’s army.
Other experts argue that pressure could build on General Musharraf if the corps commanders believed that the president’s actions threatened the $1 billion in annual aid Washington provides to Pakistan’s military.
“The military is pretty demoralized right now,” said Christine Fair, a Pakistan analyst in Washington. “But what keeps Musharraf in the position he is in with the military is the huge largess from the United States.”
David Rohde and Carlota Gall reported from Islamabad, Pakistan, and Thom Shanker contributed from Washington.

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf's days are numbered.


I think US is now realizing the double game Mushy has been trying to play and they are looking for alternative regardless of he falls or not.

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf's days are numbered.

lets hope some good comes out of it. otherwise the repercussions for state as a whole will be very bad if Mush sticks to his guns.

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf's days are numbered.

It can be only good if military decides to go back to barracks and let civilians decide how they want to form a government, military should only be an assistant when needed and may be part of some check and balance (rather than just usurper). But if there is another military coup then we are in trouble.

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Re: US officalls: Mushrraf's days are numbered.

by clean ending i meant that its not resolved in a way that results in further chaos. i was referring to the emergency.

as for the rest..

looking at benazir, nawaz, qazi, altaf and ppl mindlessly supporting them, I have no reason to be optimistic.

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf's days are numbered.

okay, the whole nation is in wait and see mode but not thinking of forcing a change by street power.

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf's days are numbered.

they are waiting for some savior.
and guess what, nomatter whathappens, they will be looking for another savior in a few years.

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf's days are numbered.

Leadership cannot emerge in non-conducive environments.... decades of dictatorship cannot result in good leadership suddenly.

Re: US officalls: Mushrraf's days are numbered.

sure, but that does not mean that as we hopefully see military rule go away, that we open the doors and welcome incompetent corrupt ppl back in the seat of power.

both efforts can be parallel, end military rule, usher in democracy but firmly oppose crooks like benazir and nawaz.