US helicopter attack in Baghdad

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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i am one of the “moderate” Muslims. When i read this, and i see the pictures - my anger is inexpressible. Imagine, then, what response is manifested in the cafes in the streets of the cities all around the Muslim world. If this is your “democracy”, President Bush and PM Blair, why don’t you send your children to fight this “war”.

[thumb=H]ghthttckaa6483_6568158.JPG[/thumb]
Caption: Dead and injured Iraqi civilians on Haifa Street, Baghdad, after a US helicopter attack. Photo: Ghaith Abdul-Ahad/Getty Images

Report by a Guardian journalist, Ghaith Abdul-Ahad.

‘He’s just sleeping, I kept telling myself’]('He's just sleeping, I kept telling myself' | Iraq | The Guardian), The Guardian

On Sunday, 13 Iraqis were killed and dozens injured in Baghdad when US helicopters fired on a crowd of unarmed civilians. G2 columnist Ghaith Abdul-Ahad, who was injured in the attack, describes the scene of carnage - and reveals just how lucky he was to walk away.

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i also condemn these incidents. Of course I feel the same pain inside my heart as any other Muslimor or for that matter any sensitive human being does upon seeing such pictures...... As a matter of fact, I dedicated the whole 911 thread urging American people and policy makers to introspect themselves to find out what exactly forced 911 to happen. In case if u missed it, I am reposting the last paragraphs of 911 anniversary’s thread again:

"Although President Bush has vowed to "rid our children and our children's children of the scourge of terrorism", I fear that unless he and the international community are prepared to find out why this cancer is born and flourishes, future generations will continue to face it.

Unless we are prepared to look at the motivation underlying their resolve, we cannot prevent similar horrors from visiting us in the future. Even if terrorist groups are broken up, their leaders killed and their banks accounts frozen, what is to stop individuals from driving a truck into a petrol station, or sinking a hijacked cruise ship? Not much training or resources are needed to carry out such random terror attacks. The truth is that it is virtually impossible to stop a person from committing mayhem if he is willing to die in the attempt."

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No, Phoenix Desi is right. An argument has lost its entire validity, if anger is part of the equation. Sorry, PD.

Let me try that again. We were promised, by different governmental leaders, that Iraq would be a more positive country subsequent to the invasion. No one expected this to occur overnight.

It has been more than one year. The majority of us sit comfortably in countries not directly affected by Iraq. So it's hard for us to fathom whatever the people go through. This is a country that went through decades with a ruthless regime in power (the Ba'athist party), then suffered through more than ten years of genocidal sanctions, then topped off with a very devastating (infrastructually) invasion, and now are living through what appears like a civil war. i mean - honestly. Iraqis sold their kidneys on the black market, to make 50 bucks, so that they could put food on the table for their kids. i mean, when you reach a point where you have to sell one of your kidneys so that your kids don't go to bed hungry --- where is the moral compass of this world ? Does anyone have a count on how many Iraqi widows have been created since the official end of the invasion ? No, no one does. i thought it was a stupid cliche, but sadly i guess i was wrong. The values of certain lives do exist on a hierarchical scale and Iraqis are at the bottom of the barrel so to speak.

The official transfer of power occurred towards the end of June, in this year. Perhaps i have missed it, but has anyone noticed any positive change within Iraq since this official transfer of power ? The interim Iraqi govt lacks all credibility. As the standoff in Najaf manifested, they do not possess basic authority in the eyes of their own (Shi'ite) fellowmen, let alone in the eyes of Arabs or Muslims in general. This is a country that went from bad to worse, and it will take decades to repair the havoc created. In the meantime, i am certain that our children and our children's grandchildren will be paying the price for our ever-so misguided policies.

In any reasonable world, those individuals who initiated this terrible sequence of events would have been held accountable for their deeds. But 'reason' and politics seldom go hand in hand.

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PD its pretty simple. If you can take 5 minutes out of your day to mention the use of language. You can also take time out to write a sentence or two. I personally dont need to as my opinion on the topic is very well known. Plus i cant post profanity. So my vocabulary is now decreased by 90%.

Countries have been built in centuries. Not years. It will take Iraq decades to recover.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
No, Phoenix Desi is right. An argument has lost its entire validity, if anger is part of the equation. Sorry, PD.

Let me try that again. We were promised, by different governmental leaders, that Iraq would be a more positive country subsequent to the invasion. No one expected this to occur overnight.

It has been more than one year. The majority of us sit comfortably in countries not directly affected by Iraq. So it's hard for us to fathom whatever the people go through. This is a country that went through decades with a ruthless regime in power (the Ba'athist party), then suffered through more than ten years of genocidal sanctions, then topped off with a very devastating (infrastructually) invasion, and now are living through what appears like a civil war. i mean - honestly. Iraqis sold their kidneys on the black market, to make 50 bucks, so that they could put food on the table for their kids. i mean, when you reach a point where you have to sell one of your kidneys so that your kids don't go to bed hungry --- where is the moral compass of this world ? Does anyone have a count on how many Iraqi widows have been created since the official end of the invasion ? No, no one does. i thought it was a stupid cliche, but sadly i guess i was wrong. The values of certain lives do exist on a hierarchical scale and Iraqis are at the bottom of the barrel so to speak.

The official transfer of power occurred towards the end of June, in this year. Perhaps i have missed it, but has anyone noticed any positive change within Iraq since this official transfer of power ? The interim Iraqi govt lacks all credibility. As the standoff in Najaf manifested, they do not possess basic authority in the eyes of their own (Shi'ite) fellowmen, let alone in the eyes of Arabs or Muslims in general. This is a country that went from bad to worse, and it will take decades to repair the havoc created. In the meantime, i am certain that our children and our children's grandchildren will be paying the price for our ever-so misguided policies.

In any reasonable world, those individuals who initiated this terrible sequence of events would have been held accountable for their deeds. But 'reason' and politics seldom go hand in hand.
[/QUOTE]

Thank you very much nadia for being so cooperative and setting an example for all of us by reiterating your emotions so convincingly. It was very refreshing indeed. I hope we all will learn a lesson from this.

I do share your emotions on Iraqi people’s current situation. I happen to work for a large international engineering consulting corporation which is very actively involved in Iraq on several infrastructure and institutional development projects. As a matter of fact, several members from our phoenix office are in Iraq right now. One of them just came back last week after serving in Iraq over 6 months. Upon my inquiry, he told me that country has nothing in terms of infrastructure i.e. municipal facilities, hospitals, and sewers. I guess a lot existing infrastructure has been demolished after this horrible war. However, he told me that USA companies are trying their best to design and construct brand new infrastructure in Iraq in accordance with international standards. When I asked how do Iraqi people feel about American presence in Iraq, he told me “Not So Good”. At least he was honest….. I asked him if USA is building so much stuff in Iraq then why are Iraqi people not feeling so good about it. He just shrugged his shoulders in a typical American style with no answer……

I really feel sorry for Iraqi people. They are suffering for little too long now. Unfortunately, the balance of power in this world is little unbalanced right now with no real counter-power to challenge USA. And even if there was a second super power in existence right now, it would have acted, understandably so, to serve its own benefits. I believe that no one will help Muslims until and unless they are willing to help themselves by acquiring more and more scientific knowledge. Terrorism or present jihadi mode is only a short-term solution to a long-term problem and in the long run it will simply create more problems for Muslims.

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:flower1: :flower1: :flower1: PD, please don’t make me embarassed. It was i who was in the wrong to begin with, so i should be the one thanking you, not the other way around. :flower1: i am sorry. i apologize.

i am sure they are and Insha’Allah their work will prove to be most beneficial for those groups in Iraq that should gain the most from infrastructural repairs (electricity in schools for children, in hospitals for pregnant women, etc).

i hate to be cynical, i think cynicism slowly reduces one’s humanity… maybe i am way too dark-minded and pessimistic… If it was possible for a situation to exist in which Iraq’s infrastructures had not been damaged to begin with, then just perhaps there would be a few more families who hadn’t lost loved ones, in Iraq today. But, everything i state is debatable. i suppose everything political is debatable.

i just hate politics now, more than ever. i wish i didn’t have an “interest” in politics because then i could just blissfully live in my ignorant little bubble world [like some of my friends in real life] and pretend that stuff like this never occurs. i wish i had never heard the word “Iraq” in my life. Ignorance can be so blissful.

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The thing that saddens me even more that still there are some Muslims who thinks that this was a just war and they name it war against terrorism. Isn’t that sad? And you don’t have to go too far to find such people some of them are here in this forum. I don’t want to name names but all of you should who are they? How can you justify the blood shed of your Muslim brothers and sister and support such Evil wrong-doers and talk about bringing them back to power. Don’t we have to change ourselves before we try to change the thinking of others.

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by phoenixdesi: *
**I believe that no one will help Muslims until and unless they are willing to help themselves by acquiring more and more scientific knowledge. *
[/QUOTE]

i think not just that, but also reform their political governance - eliminate monarchies, sheikhdoms etc.

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Agent Smith: *
How can you justify the blood shed of your Muslim brothers and sister and support such Evil wrong-doers and talk about bringing **them* back to power.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, who do you mean by "them" ?

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Bush and his gang, I thought it was self explanatory.

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The absence of the one sided terror brigade is rather expected innit.

Disgusting act of terror, time for more non-Mulsim/American intropection, get out on the streets and reform your non-Mulsim selves, march and spy on each other and bring down your corrupt regime.

State sanction evil/terror!

PD Iraq de lutt vich paya?! figures!

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Let's see how many Americans post their disgust and condemnation of the brutality shown by the American forces. This once again proves that it is not a war on terror but a war of terror.

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I have one thing to say, who ever owns this forum his/her choice of mods is awesome... wah! wah!

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With liberators like these, who needs Saddam?

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I don’t think there is anyone who does NOT feel very, very sorry for the Iraqi people. They have suffered too much and too many are dieing.

The choice of using a picture of an incident where 13 Iraqis died and dozens were injured to castigate America is puzzling though. (“Here is your American democracy.”)

No pictures are available for the latest incident but sometimes words are eloquent.

** “I was standing there talking to my friend when suddenly all I saw was blood, and my friend lying dead,” said an Iraqi man who gave his name as Zafer, speaking from his hospital bed with blood and scratches on his face and bandages on his stomach.

Hospital workers hosed pools of blood from the floor.

At the blast site, rescuers pulled bodies from mangled market stalls. The area was littered with shoes, clothes and body parts, as well as fruit and vegetables from the market.

Bloodstained corpses lay on pavements strewn with chairs, glass and rubble from blown-out shopfronts. Dazed bystanders vainly checked bodies for signs of life. **

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=6231539&pageNumber=0

An attack by a US helicopter perhaps? Nope. Just some terrorist thugs having a good time seeking their reward from Allah. 47 DEAD and 114 WOUNDED.

** “With the grace of God, a lion from our martyrdom brigades was successful in striking a center for apostate police volunteers” – (Internet statement in the name of the Tawhid and Jihad group led by Jordanian al Qaeda ally Abu Musab al-Zarqawi ) **

This follows a weekend of other horrors killing and wounding hundreds.

The sympathy for the Iraqi people is well placed and needs to be expressed by all. The demonization of American policy is not. There is a distinct group of people intentionally making things go from bad to worse instead of from bad to better. As to infrastructure, again from the above cited Reuters article:

** Guerrillas also blew up oil pipelines in northern Iraq, cutting northern oil exports and forcing a nearby power station to be shut down. The attack meant large areas of Iraq were without electricity from 3 a.m. onward. **

It is very sad that the thugs claiming to be fighting for the Iraqi people are the ones who are using them as pawns and believe inflicting more and more misery upon them and turning Iraq into a hellhole somehow is in the Iraqi people’s best interest. But yet again we see a thread displacing blame for the direct actions of terrorist thugs onto America. Progress is bad. Destruction is good. And so many buy into this lame reasoning. The world is turned upside down.

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^Hmmmmmmmmmm as usual Absolutely NO condemnation of the barbairc attack by the American occupying forces. Typical.

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^ AND as usual, absolutely NO condemnation of the barbairc attack by Iraqi "freedom fighters". Typical. Why do people continue to ask for things they are not willing to do themselves?

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^You people were taking the high moral ground a few weeks ago by preaching that muslims should condemn this and muslims should condemn that. Why dont you lead by example, or is that too much to ask?

I would ask the same question as well "Why do people continue to ask for things they are not willing to do themselves?"

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Sounds like a standoff. Why dont you lead by example?

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So you do agree when it comes down to it you people can only give sermons and not lead by example or condemn the barbaric acts of your soldiers. Always thought that was the case. Next time remember that before telling the world to condemn this and that.