Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
understand American exceptionalism anyone?
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
^ Please elaborate
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
In my case not at all, you know my position on China and the trouble in East Turkestan (Xingjiang). Aside from that its ones Islamic duty is to speak against oppresors no matter who they may be even Iranians or Pakistani governments that are unnessacarily targeting minorites and we have often debated this.
I think the thing that gets under most peoples skin right now is how while its easy enough to criticise the Chinese, or our own or whomsoever becuase most of the time they dont lie or hide thier facts... if the other issues are bought up in the UN something gets done.. to an extent great or small. I remember when the Danes and Swedes spoke out against South African Aparthied the UN pushed sanctions through no problemo... likewise the Chinese backed off with thier huge demolition plans in areas like Xinjiang and Tibet when the international community rallied. Russia was forced to ceasefire in in Chechneya when it could have rummbled right through and flattened anything.
But against the US or Isreal the UN seems utterly useless in fact irony is that the UN has more influence on Colombian drug lords than it does over the US or Isreal... heck the Pope has more influence on the Cartels but US or Isreal dont give two cents for the laws of man or God and thats what really gets people annoyed.
With the war in Iraq it shows that the UN can stop Chinese influence in Africa or Russian influences in Central Asia or the near east by various embargoes or culture based boycots and sanctions but if you try and prevent America going on an oil grabbing folley it is next to impossible.
This desi style Lathi and Behns diplomacy just cant work for very long becuase sooner or later the message you send out is something like every man for himself and this is how we get International terrorism and global wars.
these kind of discussion is pointless, the topic is about iraqi oil and exploitation of it by the US administration what is point of discussing chinese human rights violations? Why does'nt the individuals start new topic on Chinese human rights if they so concerned.
It is classic diversion tactic they cannot justify the stealing of iraqi oil by the americans and the disaster war so lets change the topic instead onto to china or north korea or some other random country any except the country which topic about!
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
^ Please elaborate
American exceptionalism refers to the theory that the United States is qualitatively different from other nations. In this view, America's exceptionalism stems from its emergence from a revolution, becoming "the first new nation", and developing a uniquely American ideology, based on liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, populism and laissez-faire. This observation can be traced to Alexis de Tocqueville, the first writer to describe the United States as "exceptional".The term "American exceptionalism" itself was first used by members of the American Communist Party in the 1920s, in reference to their belief that "thanks to its natural resources, industrial capacity, and absence of rigid class distinctions, America might for a long while avoid the crisis that must eventually befall every capitalist society."
Although the term does not imply superiority, some writers have used it in that sense. To them, the United States is a "shining city on a hill", and exempt from historical forces that have affected other countries. In the 1960s "postnationalist" scholars rejected American exceptionalism, arguing that the United States had not broken from European history, and had retained class inequities, imperialism and war. Furthermore, they saw every nation as subscribing to some form of exceptionalism
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
^ Thankyou for that it was very informative :)
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
these kind of discussion is pointless, the topic is about iraqi oil and exploitation of it by the US administration what is point of discussing chinese human rights violations? Why does'nt the individuals start new topic on Chinese human rights if they so concerned.
It is classic diversion tactic they cannot justify the stealing of iraqi oil by the americans and the disaster war so lets change the topic instead onto to china or north korea or some other random country any except the country which topic about!
Well technically Med911 was still on topic when he tried to say that it's not just the USA thats stealing resources.
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
In my case not at all, you know my position on China and the trouble in East Turkestan (Xingjiang). Aside from that its ones Islamic duty is to speak against oppresors no matter who they may be even Iranians or Pakistani governments that are unnessacarily targeting minorites and we have often debated this.
I think the thing that gets under most peoples skin right now is how while its easy enough to criticise the Chinese, or our own or whomsoever becuase most of the time they dont lie or hide thier facts... if the other issues are bought up in the UN something gets done.. to an extent great or small. I remember when the Danes and Swedes spoke out against South African Aparthied the UN pushed sanctions through no problemo... likewise the Chinese backed off with thier huge demolition plans in areas like Xinjiang and Tibet when the international community rallied. Russia was forced to ceasefire in in Chechneya when it could have rummbled right through and flattened anything.
But against the US or Isreal the UN seems utterly useless in fact irony is that the UN has more influence on Colombian drug lords than it does over the US or Isreal... heck the Pope has more influence on the Cartels but US or Isreal dont give two cents for the laws of man or God and thats what really gets people annoyed.
With the war in Iraq it shows that the UN can stop Chinese influence in Africa or Russian influences in Central Asia or the near east by various embargoes or culture based boycots and sanctions but if you try and prevent America going on an oil grabbing folley it is next to impossible.
This desi style Lathi and Behns diplomacy just cant work for very long becuase sooner or later the message you send out is something like every man for himself and this is how we get International terrorism and global wars.
Im speaking in general terms. There are a few guilty here, and for the most part, most of the time, we tend to vilify the US and praise China to no end, but then, we do that to the Saudis aswell.
But yes you are right, America and Israel by association, do get away with a lot. But then that is do to the status of the US. They can get away with much more because their influence is that high. If there is one truth in the world, its that the more powerful you are economically, the more influence you have. This equation is not unique to the US, its to common to all nations to some degree. India can get away with what it does in Kashmir because it has a large market and a growing economy. China can get away what it does in Tibet and Xinjiang because it has a huge economy that owns a lot of the worlds debt. Pakistan can get away what games it plays in Afghanistan because the US needs its support there.
America has influence because it played its cards right. This influence and power can be had by anyone that is able to compete. Look how skillfully the China is competing with the US.
The problem as I see it, is that the Muslim world is frustrated because we are not competing. Lack of proper governance, lack of investment in education, and society in general, means that global powers like the US are easily able to exploit these countries for all the have. The anger and frustration however should not be directed against the West or the US, which is only doing what any power would do, but to themselves and their govt.
The Arab spring thus is a healthy thing percisely because it attacks the right targets.
The unhealthy outlet for this general sense of deprivation is Al Qaeda at the extreme end, and the internet Jihadis such as the ones we have here at the other.
The people of Pakistan shouldn't curse the US for doing whatever it is they think its doing, they should curse their own govt, they should curse the fact that the Pak govt has no intention of improving education or provide social welfare beyond lip service. Its a failure of the Pakistani state that we are exploited by powers such as the US. Its a failure of the broader Muslim world that we are not able to compete and are so exploited.
Bottom line, you cant hate America for doing what ALL of us do. All nations strive for power and influence. The US has attained such a status, and so it wields that status just as we would if we were a global power.
We Pakistanis are a relatively strong REGIONAL power, and we wield that status as we see fit. But ask any Afghan who he hates more, the US and Pakistan, and im sure Pakistan will be first? Just as we are frustrated when America and Israel are able get away with so much, dont you think the Afghans get frustrated by seeing Pakistan getting away with so much?
And yes, the UN does seem useless, but then we knew the rules of the game when we signed up to be UN members. None the less, like I said, its not the UN that is relevant, its how much money you can throw around. The best for the Muslim world lies not in cursing the US or UN, OR Israel, its investment in themselves. Investing in the future through education and innovation will resolve much in the long run. China and other countries may yet be influenced by the UN, but America is America my friend, its still the preeminent super power. But even in the case of the US, recall they still had to win the support of the UN before the went to war in Iraq. Perhaps it was a formality, but they did have to convince the UN of their case.
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
these kind of discussion is pointless, the topic is about iraqi oil and exploitation of it by the US administration what is point of discussing chinese human rights violations? Why does'nt the individuals start new topic on Chinese human rights if they so concerned.
It is classic diversion tactic they cannot justify the stealing of iraqi oil by the americans and the disaster war so lets change the topic instead onto to china or north korea or some other random country any except the country which topic about!
You miss the point. In simple terms, you cannot criticize the US for doing exactly what we all do within our limited scope. We are all guilty of stealing resources. Its hypocritical to demonize the US alone.
And I know what you are doing, this line of reasoning that you are using, this "open a new thread.." nonsense, is a classic diversion tactic, because it absolves you of actually having to examine your own hypocrisy while having the luxury of continue to criticize the US as you like. Perhaps if YOU are so concerned by the exploitation of Muslim resources, then YOU should be the one to open a topic on Chinese exploitation of Chinese Muslims. Why leave it to others to open threads, when you can do it yourself considering how important the issue is to YOU!
But then here is the problem with you and others like "Rommel" and 'Javed in Paris." You will never open a thread criticizing anyone EXCEPT the US. You will never open a thread on Muslims raping other Muslims or Non Muslims, or anything critical of ANY Muslim anywhere. And that is why this thread is pointless, not because we mentioned China, but because you people are not interested in discussing this subject in a substantive manner, your only motive is to vilify the US and win brownie points from other internet Jihadis...
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
American exceptionalism refers to the theory that the United States is qualitatively different from other nations. In this view, America's exceptionalism stems from its emergence from a revolution, becoming "the first new nation", and developing a uniquely American ideology, based on liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, populism and laissez-faire. This observation can be traced to Alexis de Tocqueville, the first writer to describe the United States as "exceptional".The term "American exceptionalism" itself was first used by members of the American Communist Party in the 1920s, in reference to their belief that "thanks to its natural resources, industrial capacity, and absence of rigid class distinctions, America might for a long while avoid the crisis that must eventually befall every capitalist society."
Although the term does not imply superiority, some writers have used it in that sense. To them, the United States is a "shining city on a hill", and exempt from historical forces that have affected other countries. In the 1960s "postnationalist" scholars rejected American exceptionalism, arguing that the United States had not broken from European history, and had retained class inequities, imperialism and war. Furthermore, they saw every nation as subscribing to some form of exceptionalism
Good info dude.
I would agree with "Post Nationalists" whole heartedly.
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
:)
some people who are always on to pushing their stupid agenda of cursing and discussing only american and nato atrocities , they are unable to counter the facts and can never face the charges (against their beloved terrorists taliban and fake jehadi suicide bombers) coming up during the discussion, they simply want to hide their face behind the foolish arguement "why don't open another thread"or stay to the topic .when they are cornered or become short of arguments they come up with advice to open a new thread.why not these people come up with a balanced point of view ?
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
:)
some people who are always on to pushing their stupid agenda of cursing and discussing only american and nato atrocities , they are unable to counter the facts and can never face the charges (against their beloved terrorists taliban and fake jehadi suicide bombers) coming up during the discussion, they simply want to hide their face behind the foolish arguement "why don't open another thread"or stay to the topic . short of arguments they come up with advice to open a new thread.why not these people come up with a balanced point of view ?
its because many are half knowledge about the actual consequence and picture of what is happening or what really happened ...... just depend on commercialize news paper or some lame tv channels ..........
Half baked chicken not good in any ways to serve !
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
:)
some people who are always on to pushing their stupid agenda of cursing and discussing only american and nato atrocities , they are unable to counter the facts and can never face the charges (against their beloved terrorists taliban and fake jehadi suicide bombers) coming up during the discussion, they simply want to hide their face behind the foolish arguement "why don't open another thread"or stay to the topic .when they are cornered or become short of arguments they come up with advice to open a new thread.why not these people come up with a balanced point of view ?
look i could easily call you a fanatical hindu extremist who has a hatefilled agenda against muslims not constructive and nothing to do with the discussion.
Have you got anything to refute the topic and allegation of US exploiting iraqi oil or not?
lets see if its another silly set of insults or another excuse not to answer the question!
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
look i could easily call you a fanatical hindu extremist who has a hatefilled agenda against muslims not constructive and nothing to do with the discussion.
Have you got anything to refute the topic and allegation of US exploiting iraqi oil or not?
lets see if its another silly set of insults or another excuse not to answer the question!
We all agree that the US is exploiting Iraqis and their oil... Congratulations, you have convinced us all.
So are we done here?
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
You miss the point. In simple terms, you cannot criticize the US for doing exactly what we all do within our limited scope. We are all guilty of stealing resources. Its hypocritical to demonize the US alone.
And I know what you are doing, this line of reasoning that you are using, this "open a new thread.." nonsense, is a classic diversion tactic, because it absolves you of actually having to examine your own hypocrisy while having the luxury of continue to criticize the US as you like. Perhaps if YOU are so concerned by the exploitation of Muslim resources, then YOU should be the one to open a topic on Chinese exploitation of Chinese Muslims. Why leave it to others to open threads, when you can do it yourself considering how important the issue is to YOU!
But then here is the problem with you and others like "Rommel" and 'Javed in Paris." You will never open a thread criticizing anyone EXCEPT the US. You will never open a thread on Muslims raping other Muslims or Non Muslims, or anything critical of ANY Muslim anywhere. And that is why this thread is pointless, not because we mentioned China, but because you people are not interested in discussing this subject in a substantive manner, your only motive is to vilify the US and win brownie points from other internet Jihadis...
You are just excusing the US again which is your trait for its exploitation of Iraq in this topic, the topic is about the US and it is justified to criticize them. For me the US government with its foreign policies is number one enemy of the muslims this is fact by the bases in muslim world and the wars they execute on the muslims.
At least you finally admitted US is exploiting the iraqis !
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
You are just excusing the US again which is your trait for its exploitation of Iraq in this topic, the topic is about the US and it is justified to criticize them. For me the US government with its foreign policies is number one enemy of the muslims this is fact by the bases in muslim world and the wars they execute on the muslims.
At least you finally admitted US is exploiting the iraqis !
Sorry man, you either havent the intellectual capacity for a reasonable debate, or your blind hate clouds whatever reason you had left. Either way, dont waste my time with garbage please.
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
@zhenge & rommel - say CNOOK does a deal with Pakistan to explore & mine in Balochistan. Will you call that a case of China exploiting Pakistan? Both parties benefit and hence it is a reasonable business deal.
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
@zhenge & rommel - say CNOOK does a deal with Pakistan to explore & mine in Balochistan. Will you call that a case of China exploiting Pakistan? Both parties benefit and hence it is a reasonable business deal.
Did they liberate Pakistanis first? Not a reasonable deal if not.
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
@zhenge & rommel - say CNOOK does a deal with Pakistan to explore & mine in Balochistan. Will you call that a case of China exploiting Pakistan? Both parties benefit and hence it is a reasonable business deal.
Killing hundreds of thousands of iraqis in an illegal war and then stealing their oil is not business deal its called a war crime how sick can you get?
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
@kakabilli - don't understand your question. liberate Pakistanis from what? even if Pakistanis need such liberation, why is it the responsibility of an oil company?
@rommel - how is this stealing oil? Exxon is paying them and outbidding other partners
Re: US corporation signs huge oil deal In Iraq but War was not about oil they claimed
@kaka billi - don't understand your question. liberate Pakistanis from what? even if Pakistanis need such liberation, why is it the responsibility of an oil company?
@rommel - how is this stealing oil? Exxon is paying them and outbidding other partners
I suppose he is right about it being an Illegal war and Exxon wether it pays for it or not has no right to oil that is obtained through an illegal invasion... Were it not for the invasion Exxon would probably never have got there. Also not always such oil deals are good for the people of that country sometimes it is almost par with theft when you give all the money to a few corrupt officials and take the oil away from the native people who have more of a right to thier own resource. Iraqi people should be the ones to decide who gets the oil. However I doubt anyones really asked the majority of Iraqs population on the matter... as always the rich get richer and the poor just die.