US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

Many of us thought so, the unending drone strikes are part of third American war in a decade.

Pentagon Chief Admits U.S. Is at War in Pakistan | Danger Room | Wired.com

Pentagon Chief Admits U.S. Is at War in Pakistan

http://lh5.ggpht.com/pePh0UAoShHKXM5WZyWymeBEBYVb2jhaYxmGOnV4VlLAqJ2cUR4uy309tYyiBGmRZoEMDJnDr9W5KhO-TYYWOi3FEG1nt6zKO_o=s288

Reaper drones, like this one packing GPS-guided bombs, are a key component of the U.S. war in Pakistan. Photo: U.S. Air Force

“We are fighting a war in the FATA, we are fighting a war against terrorism,” said Defense Secretary Leon Panetta on Wednesday, referring to the tribal areas of Pakistan that the U.S. has spent three years bombing heavily. Was that so hard to admit?

For years, it has been. Neither the Bush nor Obama administration has been forthright about the starkest fact of the recent war on terrorism: most of it takes place in western Pakistan. As CIA director and now Pentagon chief, Panetta has been one of the key architects of the accelerated drone-and-commando war the U.S. wages there in what amounts to an open secret. In 2009, the critical year in that acceleration, Danger Room boss Noah Shachtman started pressing the Obama administration for disclosure about a war the U.S. waged in all but name.

It may be late, but at least now it’s happened. The day after the U.S. claimed that its latest drone strike in tribal Pakistan killed al-Qaida’s second in command, Abu Yahya al-Libi, Panetta used the W-word to angrily dismiss the Pakistani government’s complaints about the U.S. infringing on its sovereignty. “We have made very clear that we are going to continue to defend ourselves,” Panetta said in New Dehli.

**
The war has remained undeclared for two reasons. First, it’s awkward and potentially destabilizing to say Pakistan is a U.S. ally but the U.S. has to fight a war against terrorists on its soil. Second, it’s politically perilous to ask a war-weary public to get used to fighting what’s effectively a third war in a decade, even if this one relies far more on remote controlled robots than ground troops. That’s suited the Pakistani government: it’s given the U.S. tacit support for the drone strikes and enough cynical public denunciation of them to ward off popular upheaval. It’s unknown how many civilians die in the drone strikes, but it’s undeniable — except, sometimes, by the White House — that some do**.

But that’s gone out the window as U.S.-Pakistani relations have deteriorated over the past year. Pakistan kicked the U.S. out of an airbase used for the drone strikes and shut down a critical overland resupply route for the Afghanistan war. Panetta appears to be at his wits’ end. His stark admission that the U.S. is at war in Pakistan followed a Tuesday tongue bath for Pakistan’s arch-rival, India.

In case you’re wondering, there aren’t many legal implications or obligations prompted by Panetta’s admission. The 2001 Authorization to Use Military Force, the legal wellspring of the war on terrorism, clearly authorizes attacking the perpetrator organization of 9/11 unbounded by geographic limits. Besides that, the short document is vague enough to fly a Predator through. There is little upside and much risk for any politician arguing it’s time to end the 9/11 Era. To paraphrase Oliver Wendell Holmes, the life of the war has not been law; it has been politics.

It’s hard to imagine the reverberations Panetta’s comment will have amongst Pakistanis: polls indicate most don’t realize there’s a drone war going on at all. Americans are understandably preoccupied with domestic economic anxiety. The U.S. government, in other words, might have obscured its shadow war for nothing.

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

US losing patience with Pakistan: Panetta - geo.tv

US losing patience with Pakistan: Panetta - geo.tv**KABUL: Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said on Thursday the United States was reaching the limits of its patience with Pakistan because of the safe havens the country offered to insurgents in neighbouring Afghanistan.

**
It was some of the strongest language used by a US official to describe the strained ties between Washington and Islamabad.

Panetta was speaking in the Afghan capital, where he arrived for talks with military leaders amid rising violence in the war against the Taliban and a spate of deadly incidents, including a NATO air strike said to have killed 18 villagers.

The United States has long pushed Pakistan to do more to help in the war against militancy, but the relationship has received a series of blows, not least by a unilateral US raid into Pakistan to kill Osama bin Laden last year which humiliated Islamabad.

“**It is difficult to achieve peace in Afghanistan as long as there is safe haven for terrorists in Pakistan,” Panetta, who arrived in Kabul a day after a deadly insurgent bombing, told reporters.

**
“It is very important for Pakistan to take steps. It is an increasing concern, the issue of safe haven, and we are reaching the limits of our patience.”

Pakistan’s cooperation is considered critical to US efforts to stabilise Afghanistan before most foreign combat troops leave at the end of 2014. Pakistan has strong traditional links with the Afghan Taliban and other militant groups.

A Pakistani doctor accused of helping the CIA find bin Laden has been jailed for 33 years for treason last month, officials said, deepening strains in ties between Washington and Islamabad.

Pakistan’s parliament has been drawing up recommendations on how to proceed on ties with Washington, including a halt to US drone strikes in the country that have enraged many Pakistanis.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai said on Thursday he was cutting short an official visit to China following reports of civilian deaths in a NATO air strike in southeast Afghanistan and an insurgent bombing in the south, the presidential palace said.

Karzai said 18 civilians were killed in a pre-dawn air strike in Logar province on Wednesday. The NATO-led International Security Assistance Force said it was investigating.

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

We are reaching the patience too, when will US be honest with Pakistan? when will US stop supporting insurgents in Afghanistan who attack Pakistan?

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

poor US is losing the war because of those safe havens in Pakistan? I mean seriously, for how long they will use Pakistan as an excuse?
just few days back there was an attack at our checkpost near border areas and FC personnel was killed by these same monsters who come from Afghanistan and attack our soldiers, what about that?? for how long US will ignore these terrorists hiding in Kunar and nuristan? have they handed over this area to militants?

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

**WASHINGTON: Pakistan’s Ambassador to the US, Sherry Rehman says statements like those recently given by Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta in India, reduce the space for narrowing bilateral differences between the US and Pakistan

Panetta’s statements reduce space to narrow bilateral differences: Sherry Rehman – The Express Tribune**

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

huh? what makes you think US supports anybody that attacks Pakistan? what possible motive can we have?

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

[mod]Openly posting anti-Pakistan material: 1st ban (Navy7Army0)

Covertly rejoining to post Anti-Pakistan material: 2nd ban (BindazChakkar)

Coming back as a pretend-spokesperson for American Administration: Priceless! (Banned for being a repetitive troll)

Nice try banned troll. Good Bye.[/mod]

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

^ thanks for that, I was thinking for the past few days who this guy could be.

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

Good riddance ...we dont people here who have nothing but hatred for our land and they are here on anti-Pakistani agenda

Thank you Teggy..i was actuually pretty sure he was a multi..

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

There is that possibility that the Americans are doing that but no evidence. Sadly Pakistan, i should not even say Pakistan but strong and powerful elements within the ISI/Army are supporting militants. The evidence was shown to Pakistan last year when OBL was found living in a masnion within a mainstream and thoroughly integrated area of Pakistan. These rather powerful elements believe that supporting militants will benefit Pakistan. People in Pakistan need to start to show dislike towards militants by protesting against such organisations.

The Tribal Areas have been sent back to the dark ages thanks to ISI's own game playing. All of the mess in the tribal areas could have been avoidedhad Pakistan been upfront about the war on terror.

Maybe Americans dont like Pakistan but lets face it why should they? We have been caught playing games too many times.

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

^ the situation in the tribal areas is due to mishandling of the issue by both countries (United states and Pakistan). After 911 Alqaeda was holed up in Afghanistan, if the Americans wanted to go after them they should have persuaded the neighbouring countries to seal their borders. The problem that Pakistan has is that the borders between Afghanistan and Pakistan are not only porous but they are dividing villages, same families are living on both sides of the borders. In those circumstances it was natural for the conflict to spill over into Pakistan, the Americans going all out against AQ without proper planning gave them opportunity to flee Afghanistan and spread all over the world.

Pakistan had been training these "terrorists" since 1979, and now the Americans suddenly forced Pakistan to take a uturn which was bound to have some repercussions. Due to that there can be some elements within the military who might have maintained some attachment to the militant's cause. Not only Musharraf took a complete about turn in the taleban policy but he was forced to carry out operations there (with presence of FCR) which further deteriorated the situation in the FATA/province. TTP has killed so many people in the country with the result I dont think any sane person supports them, but on the other side many people believe that this issue cannot be solved militarily alone. American unilateralism in the country has further reduced the government's ability to convince the people to fight the WOT (as anti Americanism is on its worst in the country).

We just want Americans to leave us alone for a while, let them solve their problems and let us solve ours.

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

well Said!! Thanks to Americans, taliban were first limited only to Afghanistan and now they have spread all over the world! so yes, they are doing great job in getting rid of terrorism. their shortsighted war strategy has pushed Pakistan to a civil war, our economy has suffered alot, still we are in alliance with them, they should be thankful to us for our sacrifices. which other country in the world has done that? fight someone else war at the cost of your own people's lives??they just need to leave us alone and stop coming up with these same repetitive accusations every other week!Pakistan has done more than the whole of NATO has done, and yet they have the audacity to come and tell us to do more!!

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

Americans are vocal and honest about what Pakistan is doing. US openly says Pakistan is supporting Haqqanis.

If your statement is true...When was the last time Pakistan has openly and honeslty spoken that US supports insurgents in Pakistan??? There is not a single official statement from your FO, Interior Ministry, Pak DEfence forces that US is supporting insurgents. ....

If Pakistanis are vocal about Indians supporting Balichis etc...why arent Pakistanis vocal about Americans supporting insurgents in Pakistan...perhaps Pakistanis are not being honest about it...

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

The U.S in an undeclared war with Pakistan.

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

???????

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

I am personally glad that the Americans removed the Taliba form Afghanistan because under them the country had no chance of progression. As bad as Karzai and his lot are at least people are not as constrained.

They could have very easily stopped the infiltration of militants if they wanted to. If that would have been a problem they could have very easily removed the militants and helped the tribes to stand up to them. However, a chief militant had made it from Afghaistan to Abbottabad - at least a 6 hour journey and through Punjab as well most likely.

At this moment in time Pakistani establishment has no idea what the problems are or in fact they do not see them as problems but as strengths.

I dont buy all of the official WOT view put forward by the US and Allies but Pakistan cant afford to think the whole world is stupid and pull the wool over their eyes. Some of the US ad Pakistan goals should be the same.

Whatever has happened its the poor tribals that are suffering and they do not have any value in the eyes of the Government of Pakistan or the Military leadership.

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

^ bro I fully understand what you are saying, and partly agree with that.

My personal opinion is that Pakistan is not looking towards Afghanistan as strategic depth, there could be some elements within the forces supporting the militants in some places. Over all I think it's more of a trust deficit between both Pakistan and America. Americans think that any information given to Pakistan is passed onwards to the militants, and any action taken by US unilaterally within the country has its back lash which pushes the army on the backfoot.

The fight in tribal areas was a multi pronged issue, military was just one part of the final solution, good governance, constitutional amendments, and economic development were other aspects which had to be undertaken by the government and they have badly failed. How long can the army keep on conducting operations without the other necessary elements? To pin the failure exclusively on the army is not fair.

I for one do not think that military is the solution to this problem, a lot of bloodshed has taken place in the area. When the gunship helicopters attack villages they create more destruction as compared to drones. During the past 10 years there have been 300 drone attacks whereas over 5500 sorties conducted by PAF, hundreds of thousands of people are languishing in camps. We should give the people some break, by following the diktats from Americans blindly the military has done a great dis service to the country.

It's time to disengage from military operations and time for government to play its part, bring the tribal areas into the mainstream, remove FCR, political parties should be free to operate there and provide them with better economic opportunities. I assure you the situation will improve when the government develops the will for tackling the issue.

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

US fighting its own war in tribal areas: Panetta | DAWN.COM

**WASHINGTON: US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta while giving an interview to a US television channel on Saturday said that the United States(US) is fighting its own war in the tribal areas of the Pak-Afghan border region and that military safe havens in Pakistan would not be tolerated, DawnNews reported.
**
During the interview, the US defence secretary without specifying any further said that the US would take every possible step to protect its troops.

While reiterating the stance against military safe havens in Pakistan’s tribal areas, he said that the US would continue to pressurise Pakistan to act effectively against the Haqqani network.

He warned that incidents of militants’ cross-border movement between Pakistan and Afghanistan resulting in attacks that kill US troops stationed in Afghanistan would not be tolerated in any case.

Pakistan’s Foreign Office spokesperson while rejecting Panetta’s remarks said that certain complicated matters were being viewed lightly by the US and that the Nato supply route through Pakistan would not be restored without a US apology.

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

I meant to say, first they were limited to Afghanistan and Pakistan tribal areas and now they are in North Africa and Middle eastern countries!

Re: US at war in Pakistan - Panetta

^ ummm... well, a lot of those butchers actually came to Afghanistan and Pakistan from Africa and Middle-eastern countries.