Urgent question about marriage and culture

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Dear Guppies,

I am somewhat confused about this, and would appreciate your help…

In Pakistani culture, is it common for a man to buy a house for his future wife BEFORE the wedding? If the girl’s family demands it or requests it? The girl is doing this for security, in case, Allah forbid, something bad would happen resulting in divorce.

It is my understanding that this is common, although I have never heard of it, and I would hesitate asking my parents until I can get some opinions here, as I don’t want my parents to have a negative impression about the girl.

I have searched a lot online, and came across Haq Meher? If the above is true, is this considered haq meher?

Has anyone here observed this practice of buying or receiving a house before the marriage is consummated? Please advise! I really need your help!

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A girl can demand a house or a sum of money, or whatever else as Mahr. This would be a condition of the marriage and would be hers as mahr after the nikkah is done. The mahr can be deferred or immediate. If the girl says she wants a house and for it to be in her name WITHOUT being deferred, then it should be done as a condition of the marriage.

The delayed portion of the dowry is regarded as a debt that the husband owes
Is the delayed portion of the dowry regarded as a debt left by a husband who has died, and must it be paid to the wife from his estate? Please note that he had not consummated the marriage with the wife.

[FONT=‘Traditional Arabic’]Praise be to Allaah.
[FONT=‘Traditional Arabic’]Firstly:

[FONT=‘Traditional Arabic’]It is permissible for the dowry to be paid immediately or to be deferred, or for part to be paid immediately and part deferred… If it is stipulated that it should be paid at a specific time, then it must be paid at that time, but if it is deferred without specifying the time when it is to be paid, then according to Al-Qaadi, the mahr (dowry) is valid and the time for it to be paid is upon separation. Ahmad said: If a dowry is being paid in two parts, one immediate and one deferred, the deferred is only payable in the case of (the husband’s) death or separation. End quote.

[FONT=‘Traditional Arabic’]This was stated by Ibn Qudaamah in al-Mughni, 10/115
[FONT=‘Traditional Arabic’]Secondly:
[FONT=‘Traditional Arabic’]If one of the spouses died before the marriage is consummated, the woman is entitled to the mahr in full.
[FONT=‘Traditional Arabic’]This was stated in Mughni al-Muhtaaj, 4/374, where it says that there was consensus among the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) on this point.
[FONT=‘Traditional Arabic’]It was also mentioned in al-Insaaf (21/227) where it says that there is no scholarly dispute on this matter.
[FONT=‘Traditional Arabic’]Thirdly:

[FONT=‘Traditional Arabic’]If the husband dies, the mahr that had not been paid to the wife becomes a debt that he still owes; it should be taken from the estate before it is divided among the heirs.

[FONT=‘Traditional Arabic’]The Standing Committee for Issuing Fatwas was asked:
[FONT=‘Traditional Arabic’]Is the delayed portion of the mahr permissible or not? If it is permissible but the husband has died and he did not divorce his wife, is it a debt that he left behind or not?
[FONT=‘Traditional Arabic’]They replied:
[FONT=‘Traditional Arabic’]It is permissible for the entire dowry to be paid in advance or to be deferred, or part of it may be paid in advance and part of it deferred. Whatever was deferred must be paid when the time stipulated comes. If no specific time was stipulated, then the husband must pay it if he divorces his wife, and it must be paid from his estate if he dies. End quote.
[FONT=‘Traditional Arabic’]

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Re: Urgent question about marriage and culture

Not common, but it can happen through mutual accord

there is nothing wrong in it. Yes it can very well be Haq mehr. should duly be written down in Nikah nama.

I assume you are they guy in this situation. I believe if you can afford and want to then there is nothing wrong in this demand from girls side.

It is not a common practice in pakistan as most young men cant afford a house of their own , so early in their life. There are exceptions, however.

But i see it is a completely legit demand for a haq mehr.

As it appears that you dont reside in pakisan permanently, so it is quite fair for girl’s side to demand some security. We hear so many cases of people who dont reside in pakistan, being fraudsters and bad spouse , due to complications in their status in foreign land. Such marraige (outside of family ) has very grim chances of success.

I talking about generally, not particularly about your case. So dont take it personally.

Mods ! think the topic is better suited here
Culture, Literature & Linguistics

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Thank you both for your feedback! Quick question...is haq mehr the same as mehr?

Secondly, as per my understanding from the posts, it seems that mehr is to be due on the signing of the nikkah, and NOT before..is this correct?

On the Nikahnama, mehr does NOT have to be a financial amount, and it can be written as a piece of land or house?

Yes, I am the guy in the situation. I live overseas and the girl lives in Pakistan. She is doing this for her security. I just didn't know such a concept existed. I had heard of the groom's family paying a certain financial amount usually a few lakh rupees, but had not heard the house concept. She explained that it is quite common now a days.

I wanted to be sure before I approach my parents, so my parents don't think bad of her.

Lastly, I personally can not afford it, but I had got this piece of land as a gift from my parents, and was recently transferred into my name. However, I would still need the approval of my parents, despite it being in my name. If I didn't receive it as a gift, there is no way I could afford it so early in my career. She is only demanding it because of her own security. Is it ok if I tell her to leave the issue for the parents to decide, since I cannot promise to give this without the consent of my parents?

Thanks again for the feedback!

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gold digger alert...

It is not common in pakistan at all. haq meher is usually cash, paid after nikkah, before consummation. People do gift houses or plots etc (girls side does it as well as the guys side), but that is done as a gift, not as a security measure.

asking for house as a security deposit before marriage is fishy behaviour....not common in pakistan.
as for meher, you pay whatever is decided mutually...noone can force you. If the girls demand is too high for you, then it means they dont trust you enough. and if your offer is too low, that means youre trying to find a cheap way out. Just find common ground.....but in any case, a house is a big deal, and no, in pakistan, it is not common.

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Re: Urgent question about marriage and culture

i agree with boyee in this issue.

i think she is using the concept of haq mehr to a different level, which no is not common in pakistan, yeah maybe with the very wealthy. Haq mehr is the money given to the girl at teh time of the nikah, couple of hundred maybe.

just beware at the fact that she is probably tryin to take control of everythin before she even gets her.... just be careful.

im not dissing girls from pakistan so dont take me wrong anyone, but i have had alot of experience with some and all i can say is they always seem to think 2 steps ahead so just watch ur own back.

ps: leave it to ur parents as they will have alot more experience and wud deal with it better

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See, the situation is somewhat different in this case...

The girl's elder sister got married a year and half ago. She did not request anything for "security," and rather transferred her assets to her husband. She blindly trusted her husband. It later turned out he was already married to someone else without her knowledge. He made her live in Pakistan, took her passport, and went overseas, so she could no longer travel, and he refused to live with her. He also refused to give a divorce. Because of this mistake in judgement previously, the younger sister who I plan on getting married to says that for her own security, and her lack of faith in men in general, despite her trusting me, she finds it necessary to have some backup, unlike her sister who is left with nothing.

This is why I sympathize with her and just wanted to make sure this is normal before approaching my parents. If not normal, is it "acceptable" as a form of mahar, and is it completely extra-ordinary...

Timepass / Uncle Ehsan's Baithak - August 2012
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I think leaving it to the parents is the best solution. Is it wrong to do that? I would prefer both parents decide on it.

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your intentions are noble.......however, instead of house, you can perhaps just increase the amount of cash meher. since you dont intend to desert her like her sister's husband, you should hav confidence in your own stand, and not give in to any hard-coded demands. What if she turns out like what her sisters husband turned out like?
i know cases where girls married just for the meher/jewellery, adn then got a divorce within days of the marriage, on one pretext or another.

so its noble of u to understand her protecting herself, but you have to protect urself too. so find a common ground. yes letting parents handle it is a good option

Timepass / Uncle Ehsan's Baithak - August 2012
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Re: Urgent question about marriage and culture

yes i think by increasing the amount of haq mehr is probably a better option, and at the end of the day if u cant afford it then she shud understand that and not put u in a predicament where u dont know what to do.

its a part of the wedding that the parents shud be dealin with not u, so if i was u, i wud seriously leave it to ur parents to discuss and come up with a fair dealing to satisfy both parties.

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No problem :) Actually it is an interesting topic. I can understand your position. and girls too.

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Tell her to not to avenge the naiveness /stupidity ( or fate ) of thier earlier action from you.
Blindly trusting that guy was *their fault. *You are nor his clone, neither a relative of the guy ( correct me if i am wrong ). So tell them to play it fair.

If it is arranged marraige then it is not your headache. Leave it to elders, they will decide better.

If it is your choice, then convince the girl.

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Thank you for your support, and thank you everyone. She is my choice and my parents are completely ok with my choice. However, I still am trying to insist her about letting the parents handling this. Let's see what happens. It's a tough situation.

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Re: Urgent question about marriage and culture

Haq meher can be anything from cash to land to a home. Usually parents decide it between the two families according to their financial position.

I dont think there is anything wrong with her demanding a home in case something happens. Its a form of security just like cash would be, right? However, she should take your finances into consideration before making such demands. Haq meher is also based on what the families can afford and agree on.

One of my sister's haq meher is $30,000 while a friend of mine has a meher of one million. It cant be just a random amount...has to be a practical and doable amount for the parties involved.

Look at it this way: if something goes wrong, khudana khwasta, you need to be able to fulfill the obligations of the nikahnama without a problem to allow the two of you to move on with your lives. Niether of you should be left penniless. :)

Leave it to your parents to decide and good luck!!!! :)

Hindu boy converts to Islam in Pakistan