Why construct one pan-Paki culture/linguistic identity…what good would result from it, why not English, Persian, or Arabic…why Urdu/Hindi (same language with two different names and written in two different scripts)…even it doesn’t give Pakistanis identity distinct from India…Urdu (also called Hindi) is the mother-tongue of 400 millions Hindustanis and a mother tongue of only 10 millions Pakistanis…
This is irrational and tantamounts to cultural imperialism…
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
Pure Urdu and Pure Hindi are as different from each other as day and night, this mixed hogwash language that most people speak is called Hindustani.
Indian media is largely responsible for corrupting the Urdu of Pakistanis, had their been no Bollywood Urdu would be spoken in it’s pure form which has as much in common with Persian as it does with Hindi, I must admit though it is confusing because we don’t know where to draw the line as to where it seizes to be Urdu and becomes Hindi or where it becomes Persian, there’s just so many ways of saying a sentence, we should construct a standard Urdu first.
A bit of Indian/Desi culture is okay but too much of it gives me heartburn, it’s soooo gay, pendulum headed and flamboyant…
I don’t want Pakistan to become another India like these ‘artists’ are trying to make it, touring each others countries and doing joint productions.. It scares me when they talk of making Lahore a twin sity of Delhi and Karachi a twin city of Mumbai…
If Pakistan is to survive in the long run it needs to construct a culture very distinct from India… In the absence of religious zeal there is nothing at the moment which justifies Pakistan’s existence.. If a pan-Paki culture is created and Pashtuns and Baluchis assimilated more into mainstream society it will help us as a country to shift away from the east a bit towwards the west, in a way this is happening, you your self said inter-ethnic marriages are getting more and more common by the day…
I mean sometimes I think it would be better if Pakistan is divided between India and Afghanistan and be done with it, at least that will stop any further Indianisation of your people so they can be identified with their own culture and heritage and so can the Punjabis/Sindhis who are already well into their Indian culture and seem to be having a hard time parting with it..
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
Calling Urdu the language of Muslims is a cultural and political propaganda and a nacked lie. I have watched a lot of Hindi movies and Hindi T.V. Channel programs and haven't found even the slightest hint that Hindi is anything other than Urdu.
Why should Indian film makers ignore 400 million Hindi speakers-(such a huge market for entertainment products) and target only a section (hardly 40 millions)of Pakistanis if Hindi is different from Urdu? Are people in Indian entertainment industry fools or not interested in profit? Or are they doing this for philanthropy?
Anyhow, I have visited India (both southern and northern) and the so called Hindi spoken there is actually Urdu (or the so-called Urdu spoken in Pakistan is actually Hindi). Probably, this language with two different scripts should be called "Hindustani".
Retaining Urdu/Hindi as a national language would be Hindustanization of Pakistan. I've no problem with Urdu/Hindi (or more appropriately Hindustani) but why link it to religion and falsely use it as a basis for distinction between Hindus and Muslims?
Also nations are not born like this. Give me a single instance from history where diverse people have suddenly decided that "now let us make a nation" and they have become a nation. On 13th August 1947, all people were Hindustanis. And the next morning when they woke up, they had become Pakistanis. Are nations born like this?
For nationhood, more fundamental factors should be in place e.g. a consciousness of common origin/race, common values and norms, common language, common history, common territory, common interests, common psyche, etc.
The only thing Pakistan is a political contract (how unrepresentative it may be though) between different nations...however it has the chances of fusing these components together into a larger whole if it is administered wisely which seems very unlikely...
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
How can Indian government tolerate an entertainment industry which promotes the national language and so the identity/nationhood of a state that it considers hostile? Or are Hindus abandoning a Hindu language and adopting a "Muslim" language?
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
Urdu is not an Indian export. Urdu is a mixture of Sanskrit, Prakrit, Arabic, Persian and Turkish. All of these languages have at one time or another been spoken in Pakistan. It was in Pakistan that the Sanskrit language was given definite shape by Panini. So it’s actually India which has been at the receiving end, getting its religion, culture and language from the Aryans.
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
So before Pakistan there wa no Urdu. Right!!! Pull this leg, it plays jingle bells
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
Urdu was invented in military camps near Delhi.
now correct me if i’m wrong, but Delhi is not in Pakistan.
to this day, it is UP/Bihar/etc. Muslims that speak true Urdu.
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
All you guys last of the vegetarians, pinstripe should do some reading into urdu and do a study on people like abdul haq, and all the various figures from the sub-continent who worked and developed urdu, it is VERY different from hindi, and last of the veggie burgers, Ive been to India too, yeah youre right there are places where they speak and understand Urdu, but then again they have TONNES of other languages, so your stupid anti-pakistani bakwas doesnt make sense here. Urdu is OUR language, we dont need arabic over it, this chel chebala has nothing better to do but to rant all day so please ignore him and his stupid threads.
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
Calling Urdu anything distinct from Hindi is a blatant lie. Apart from speakers of Indo-Aryan lanuages, there are other people in Pakistan that speak Iranian and Dardic languages. If the lingua-franca of Indo-Aryan people has been Urdu/Hindu, that of Iranic and Dardic peoople has been Persian (which also appears to be a predominently Muslim language unlike Hindi/Urdu which happens to be pre-dominently a Hindu language)?
Mr. Spock, my carnivorous friend, enlighten yourself before you plunge into further deep into darkness by reading true histories!
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
not really. as an urdu speaking person with relatives in India i can vouch that even urdu speakers from india distinguish between urdu and hindi. theres two states in india where urdu is spoken predominantly, and in those states Hindi is not encouraged, especially in UP and maybe MP.
Saying that urdu and hindi are the same is like saying farsi and pushto are the same, or hindko and punjabi are the same.
Try listening to hindi news broadcasts. Im a very good urdu speaker, but most of what they say goes over my head.
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
^ Right...haha. The languages have two different names, that should tell anyone with an IQ of over 10 that these are two different languages. And anyone with an IQ of over 50 should know that they are different because people who speak one can't necessarily understand that other.
Hindi goes so over my head its not funny. And my urdu is so-so. You can tell when you here real Urdu and real Hindi that they're not the same. I think people get mixed up because the vernacular forms of both have converged a bit due to pop culture exchange across borders. (ex. Tapori-type talk being spoken in karachi schools, in jest).
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
Read ravage’s post again, its totally different, aqal bari hai yah bhains? You are a dunce.
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
try listening to BBC Hindi news...its nothing like Urdu.
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
Different names don't necessarily imply different languages...they may be synonyms signifying dialectal forms of a language. As an example, Pashto, historically, has also been called, and still being called, Afghani....Persian and Dari are synonyms for the same language. Burki is an East Iranian language also known to people as Urmari and Bargista.
The original name for the vernicular of Hindustan was called Hindustani. Later political divide between Muslims and Hindus made the Muslims of Hindustan to give the name of Urdu to the Perso-Arabic style of writing "Hindustani" and Hindus "Hindi" to its Devanagri-style of writing.
The two names i.e. Urdu and Hindi, imply a difference of script not of syntax, semantics, vocabulary (except hardly 0.5%) or other linguistic features.
During 18th and 19th Centuries, Muslims tried to Arabize and Persianize "Hindustani" and Hindus attempted to Sanskritize it but that failed and the vernicular form i.e. the original Hindustani, prevailed both amongst Muslims and Hindus of Hindustan.
Languages changes cannot be artificially imposed on masses.
At one point, Mualavi Abdul Haq and Gandhi had agreed to retain the old name i.e. "Hindustani" for this language written in two different scripts. (I can give you proofs from authentic sources about this. )
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
That is just a hoax?
You should try listen to Hindi Channels “Star Gold”, “Zoom”, “Zee Cinema”, “B4U”, and dozen of other channels…it is exactly 100% Urdu.
Moreover, why couldn’t anyone answer, how come Bollywood, the second biggest film industry on the globe, produces movies in a language that is Urdu. Is not it an indication of the fact that at popular level, Hindi and Urdu are the same. Were Hindi different from Urdu, they would have been producing movies for 400 millions Hindi speakers instead of 10-40 million Urdu speakers of Pakistan.
It is a simple fact to grasp that 400 millions > 40 millons and an industry with coomercial motives in mind would target 400 millions Hindi speakers instead of 40 millions Urdu speakers if the two were different languages.
The official channels may try to sanskritize Urdu to make it Hindi but at popular level there is an ever increasing uniformity and homogeneity…
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
^ increasing popular culture similarities notwithstanding, you forget that a large part of India isnt proficient at speaking Hindi, including two very large provinces where Urdu is primarily spoken. This is why for the mass media the Hindi is toned down to something that isnt very severe.
If you truly wish to compare the two languages, try listening to BBC Hindi and BBC Urdu services. Which by the way predates BBC Pushto service :).
As I said before, the languages may seem the same to you who are not an Urdu speaker. But anyone who knows the language well enough will tell you theres a world of difference between them, and good urdu speakers cannot understand good hindi speakers, and vice versa.
Including the Urdu speakers in India.
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
Nicely put ravage, but this guy SURE has a thick skull, he wont get it.
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
Mr. Aflatoon, would you mind your language.
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
Ravage thank you for responding.
I personally have deep interest in linguistics and understand when are two “linguistic systems” the same and when are they different. Instead of employing linguistic terminology, let us put it simple.
“When communications in two linguistic system are mutually comprehensible i.e. if A understands the language spoken by B and conversely B understands the language spoken by A and the structural form of the languages they speak is the same, they are speaking the same language.”
There is not even a dialectical difference between Hindi and Urdu. Moreover, language is not something arcane and mysterious that can only be grasped and described by a native speaker. It is a practical thing. Any language can be defined/described/specified, almost precisely and scientifically, in terms of lexicology, syntax, semantics, phonology, phonetics, pragmatics, etc.
Re: Making Arabic our National Language
stay on topic please folks.