unlikely alliance

Sounds like your typical, Muslim fundo on the WA Forum - aka, sounds like me;~) However, she is Marwan Barghouti’s lawyer - and a Jew. i thought i would post this up just as a reminder, for all of us (myself included), that not all Jews are pro-Zionists. The amount of work that this Jewish lady is putting into assisting Marwan Barghouti, and therefore by extension helping the Palestinian cause, should force us to ask ourselves whether we, as Muslims, would do the same for others regardless of their religion.

**An unlikely alliance**, Ori Golan, The Guardian, 12 August 2003

One day when she was 16, Gisèle Halimi decided to test God. Brought up in an observant Jewish home in Tunisia, where her grandfather was a rabbi, she had been made to believe that only if she prayed for God’s blessing and observed his laws would he grant her success in school. That morning, on leaving home to take a French exam, she deliberately did not kiss the mezuzah, the parchment on the doorposts of Jewish homes, as observant Jews are obliged to. Would He punish her for her defiance? Would she fail her exam? In class the following day, her teacher announced the results: “The highest grade goes to Gisèle - as usual.” And that was that. God, she concluded, had lost. She could get by without Him.

Sixty years on, she still gets by without God. Elegant, poised and defiant, this celebrated lawyer, prolific writer and champion of women’s causes remains an irredeemable iconoclast who continues to challenge authority with the conviction and tenacity of a rebel.

In her Paris office, Halimi explains why she is currently representing Marwan Barghouti, leader of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, the Palestinian militant group that has killed and maimed an estimated 200 soldiers and civilians. Barghouti, 43, is the highest-profile Palestinian to be tried by Israel. Once considered a likely successor to Yasser Arafat, he was seen as a moderate Palestinian and a supporter of the peace process. He speaks Hebrew fluently and was involved in a number of initiatives between Israelis and Palestinians following the Oslo peace accord. Which is why many Israelis were astonished at his transformation into a radical.

For 19 months, Barghouti managed to avoid arrest and an assassination attempt by Israel’s security services. Then, in April last year, he was caught in a raid on a house in Ramallah and charged with leading and conducting suicide attacks on Israeli targets; pre-meditated murder, abetting murder, soliciting murder, attempted murder, conspiring to commit crimes, activity in a terrorist organisation, and belonging to a terrorist organisation.

Halimi, who has met him twice recently in Israel, says: “He is an intellectual, a political leader and a humanist. He is someone who suffers from the situation in his country. He would condemn all terrorism against Israel as soon as Israel ends its occupation of Palestine.”

Those familiar with Halimi’s professional trajectory will not be surprised at this alliance between a rabbi’s granddaughter and a Palestinian militant. In the 1960s she acted as counsel for the Algerian National Liberation Front and represented Algerian militants seeking to end French rule; in Spain she pleaded for Basque separatists; and she fought the corner of four leftwing militants who had acted to overthrow the government of President Marien N’Gouabi in the Congo. In 1967, she presided over the Russell Tribunal which investigated American crimes in Vietnam, and two years later, with Simone de Beauvoir, she founded Choisir, a body that defended the 343 French women who had publicly admitted to having illegal abortions.

“I condemn terrorism when it hits innocent people,” she says. “But there are innocent victims for the best causes in the world. In Algiers, in Dresden… in Israel, too, before its creation, there was terrorism. It’s important to ask the right questions. You say: ‘Why terrorism?’ I say: ‘Why occupation?’ As long as there is occupation contrary to international law, you can expect terrorism. Once there is an end to the occupation, not only will I condemn it, but there will be no terrorism.”

In numerous public statements Barghouti has claimed that his trial was staged purely for political reasons. Halimi agrees: “Generally speaking I think the Israeli internal system is democratic. But from an international law viewpoint, Israel is an outlaw. The main question is: does the Israeli court have the right to judge Barghouti? I say no; the Israeli civilian tribunal is not competent to judge him. First, the Geneva convention prohibits the kidnapping of an individual from an occupied country. This constitutes a war crime. Second, as a member of the Palestinian National Council, he enjoys parliamentary immunity from prosecution. This judicial process contravenes international law, the signed bilateral accords between Israel and the Palestinians, and Israeli jurisprudence.”

An Israeli military source calls these arguments “selective and cynical”. “Agreements between Israel and the Palestinian Authority have been repeatedly breached by the Palestinian side. In particular, the Palestinian Authority has flouted its obligations under the interim agreement of September 1995 requiring it to ‘act immediately, efficiently and effectively against acts or threats of terrorism, violence or incitement’. Barghouti is a terrorist with blood - a lot of blood - on his hands.”

The question of Israel’s legitimacy to try Barghouti was considered by Israeli state prosecutor, Dvora Chen, who stated that the interim agreements signed between Israel and the PLO in no way prevent Israel from arresting and trying people who live within the Palestinian Authority for crimes carried out in Israel or on Israelis.

Halimi insists that Barghouti is a peace-seeking man. “The prosecution says it has testimonies from Palestinians implicating him in a number of terrorist attacks, but in April these witnesses revealed that the statements were extracted from them by force. I don’t believe that Barghouti planned or instigated any terrorist attacks, or that he has paid money to commit crimes - I don’t believe it. He has no blood on his hands.”

Although France has the highest number of incidents against Jewish targets in Europe, Halimi does not believe there is a rise in anti-semitism in the country. It is racism, she says, which can be imputed to events in Israel. “The problem is that most people see Jews as unconditional supporters of Israel, and helping an unfair cause. If there was a solution to the Middle East problem then the problem of anti-semitism will disappear.”

“As a lawyer, Halimi has every right to defend what she considers a just cause,” says Marc Knobel from the highest official Jewish institution in France, the Conseil Représentatif des Institutions Juives de France. “All the same, we feel that she tends to totally exonerate the Palestinian Authority from its own responsibilities and faults, and, at the same time, all too easily vilify Israel.”

Indeed, in more than an hour of conversation, Halimi does not mention Palestinian terrorism, or pass any judgment on Palestinian corruption, incitement or duplicity.

“There is nothing surprising in her defence of Barghouti,” says feminist and sociologist Dr Liliane Kandel from the University of Paris. “Like many other French intellectuals on the left, Halimi has signed many petitions condemning Israel. Many people inside the Jewish community - and even out of it - refuse such a one-sided point of view, and deplore seeing people like Gisèle Halimi involved in those campaigns.”

Halimi makes no bones about her relationship with Israel. “I don’t have any particular solidarity with Israel,” she says. “Israel is a state like any other. I don’t think the religious aspect of it is a good thing; it’s very dangerous for democracy.”

As she expounds on her atheist convictions, one cannot help but wonder what trajectory her life would have traced had she not passed her French exam that day at school.

What is surprising about an atheist practicing law in Paris defending a Palestenian? If she was a practicing Jew from Israel taking the case, then there's some irony there (to the limited extent of professionalism scoring over religion)

Don't feed or believe the lies...

Not all Jews are Zionists even if they are, whats our issue with them as Pakistanis?

Not all Palestinians are Muslims, 35% are Christians..

Lets move beyond this damn hatred. You better believe it was Pakistanis who were running after "jewish" Lawyers after nine eleven. My dad shares his med practice with jews, we get invited to Rosh Hashanah and they are over during Eid. The females of their family are a lot more modest than some of our Muslims.

Same with Palestinians, one of my best friends is Palestinian Christian. Can recite the Quran with better tahhafodz than many of the Qaris. Getting married next year, guess who will be the best man?

The point here is to paint the reality of the world..Maybe to people in Pakistan, jews are a foriegn concept..but odds are you have ran into a jew if you live in NA. We share so much more than monotheism, our ways of living are very similar as well.

SO you found one knuckle head who agrees with your knucleheaded logic and happens to be jewish. So what!!!!!!
Does it deserve a thread. S hould we post a thousand threads that showcase the terror of this terrorist or should we bring in lawyers who defends terrorists but is doing his/her job.

and you want to work for an NGO. hahahahah

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
**Same with Palestinians, one of my best friends is Palestinian Christian. Can recite the Quran with better tahhafodz than many of the Qaris. Getting married next year, guess who will be the best man?

The point here is to paint the reality of the world..Maybe to people in Pakistan, jews are a foriegn concept..but odds are you have ran into a jew if you live in NA. We share so much more than monotheism, our ways of living are very similar as well.
[/QUOTE]
**

Rajput Fury... Very well-stated indeed. It gets lost, i think, that we do share monotheism. From a personal pov, i've found (generally speaking) more Jews who have been willingly active in social causes that adversely affect Muslims, rather than Muslims helping each other. Before someone crucifies me for making a generalization, i am NOT at all implying that all Muslims behave this way etc etc., manifestly no stereotype is ever valid. i am simply stating that in my personal experiences i have found, generally, more Jews who have been willing to help rather than Muslims - based upon my personal experiences.

Anyhow, it was great to read your reply. Thank you.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
*

Rajput Fury... Very well-stated indeed. It gets lost, i think, that we do share monotheism. From a personal pov, i've found (generally speaking) more Jews who have been willingly active in social causes that adversely affect Muslims, rather than Muslims helping each other. Before someone crucifies me for making a generalization, i am NOT at all implying that all Muslims behave this way etc etc., manifestly no stereotype is ever valid. i am simply stating that in my personal experiences i have found, generally, more Jews who have been willing to help rather than Muslims - based upon my personal experiences.

Anyhow, it was great to read your reply. Thank you.
[/QUOTE]

No need to thank me :) I speak my mind. I think your wayy nice, actually taking the time out to come up with these balanced messages and ensuring that feelings are not hurt..I appreciate that.

I concur with your statements, I have seen the same. We talk about a hollow unity when the time comes up to make change, Muslims look the other way. Ofcourse we will gave to generalize a whole community, we can't say 2.657% of Muslims are this way etc. My experiences have been the same. A bit off topic, but the Jewish rise in America is not a "raaz" it's education and hard work- Something to think about..

One man, well woman in this case does not change the reality on the ground. Yes we can be friends with jews, hindus, atheists etc. But the point is simple, when the masses start following such concepts, only then does it matter. Otherwise one person in this case means very little.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
SO you found one knuckle head who agrees with your knucleheaded logic and happens to be jewish. So what!!!!!!
Does it deserve a thread. S hould we post a thousand threads that showcase the terror of this terrorist or should we bring in lawyers who defends terrorists but is doing his/her job.

and you want to work for an NGO. hahahahah
[/QUOTE]

Yaar Matsui, you could have said all this as TomSawyer - why waste time replying with another nick? You could have used this time wisely and slagged off the the Muslims as usual, or defended the Muslim Burning Hindus.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
One man, well woman in this case does not change the reality on the ground. Yes we can be friends with jews, hindus, atheists etc. But the point is simple, when the masses start following such concepts, only then does it matter. Otherwise one person in this case means very little.
[/QUOTE]

I think the point is that the masses don't just start following these concepts on their own. It takes individuals to start an idea and concept that eventually turns into a mass movement. Yhe words of Robert Kennedy are most apt:

"Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope... and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance. "

Great point, myvoice. All great ideas and movements are started by individuals before they become group ideals. But I hope your reputation is not tainted by quoting a Democrat. :)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Great point, myvoice. All great ideas and movements are started by individuals before they become group ideals. But I hope your reputation is not tainted by quoting a Democrat. :)
[/QUOTE]

Many of us old conservatives were once young, long-haired, bell-bottom wearing, liberal activists. RFK was probably my first political hero. To this day, I remember him fondly, hold him in high esteem and visit the simple white cross marking his resting place whenever I get to DC. The memorable quote I cited is as true for conservative as it is for liberals. The difference between us is in what we believe is ideal, the things we see and perceive as injustices, and the acts that constitute improving the lot of others. I continue to hope that the ripples from my side build a stronger current than the ripples coming from the left. Anyway, isn't the definition of a "Conservative" simply "a Liberal who has been mugged?"

^ actually the definition is a "liberal who hasn;t been frock'ed

A conservative is someone who is nostalgic about a past that never was. Someone who refuses to look at the new moon out of loyalty to the old. Someone to protect the status quo, which coincidently favors the conservative and not necessarily the rest of the society (although they will condesendingly tell us it is the 'right' thing to do).

Notwithstanding all the nice things said about a Jewish Lawyer defending an alleged Palestinian terrorist, I've got to ask why anyone feels the need to inject religion into the mix at all. Lawyers defend people, organizations, and causes all the time because that is how they choose to make money. It is their job. They don't just defend innocent people. They don't just defend organizations or causes that they agree with. A lawyer defending a child molester is not an advocate for child molestation. A lawyer says things, asks certain carefully crafted questions and makes certain arguments all with the objective of getting their client off the hook.

Barghouti hiring a Jewish lawyer to defend him in an Israeli court is strategically sound. So is an accused rapist's decision to hire a female attorney to defend him. I don't see anything particularly courageous or morally superior in this lady jewish lawyer agreeing to be Barghouti's lawyer. In fact, she is apparently only Jewish by birth as she is said to be an atheist; she was apparently raised (born??) in Tunisia; lives in France as part of the leftist French intellectual society; and has been an activist in opposing Israeli policy. ** Barghouti would probably have been better served by finding a practicing conservative Jewish lawyer, living in Israel who is known as being generally supportive of the state of Israel's policies to act as his lawyer. **

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by CM: *
One man, well woman in this case does not change the reality on the ground. Yes we can be friends with jews, hindus, atheists etc. But the point is simple, when the masses start following such concepts, only then does it matter. **Otherwise one person in this case means very little.
[/QUOTE]
*

CM, i would respectfully disagree. Sure it means nothing in the larger scheme of things, one person isn't going to move mountains. That's not her purpose - i doubt she believes she will change the opinions of the 'masses' within Israel itself. But for her to adopt the stance that she does vis-a-vis occupation, is atleast deserving of some credit; it does not signify that she is shooting for the stars or that she hopes to modify public opinion within Israel - she sounds like a smart cookie, i'm sure she's not deluding herself. But maybe she does hope to do what she can, within her own personal capacity, for a cause she feels strongly about. Imagine if, at the beginning of apartheid, Mandela had shrugged his shoulders and said - 'oh well, my efforts aren't going to change the beliefs of the masses'. Where would South Africa be today if just one man, Mandela, had undermined himself?

Anyways that's just my personal opinion, though i suspect i am being naive as usual.

**

Thank you, Rajput Fury :flower1: Much appreciated, truly.

i agree with your last statement… but be careful - that’s almost heretical to admit around here;~D

Hollow unity indeed. i hope Insha’Allah maybe with the next generations we will see less divisions and more acceptance of each other, more active willingness to help each other out. Otherwise, if we don’t get our act together, we may find we have few to blame but ourselves for the morass we’re stuck in.

Sis, unity starts on an individual level. If you and I start caring about our Muslim brothers and sisters, then perhaps others will also be motivated :slight_smile:

As for my statements…I stand by what I say, sure it may not be popular but hey truth hurts. Sometimes I admit to having a bent of righteousness but if thats a crime than so be it…