Re: United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
okay...
Comments on ghulam najfis and other book scan that i posted in this thread?
Need to know what you people think about your scholars you use such language?
Re: United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
Last time I checked in constitution of pakistan shia were muslims, and I dont understand if fatwas are there proving kufr on them then y HARMAIN SHAREEFAIN and Saudia allow atleast 900,000 Shias to perform hajj. Kafir ka kiya kaam KHANA KAABA MAI.WO TO NAJS HAI.
the munafiqeen and murtadeen are expected to get through into Hajj
they have traditionally been into taqiyah, and under taqiyah we are not allowed to stop them if they feign islam. now we know alot more about them, the individual muslim, must take more precaution regards them.
as for pakistan... the less said about this the better. wedo have a blessed country where it is a criminal offence to be a shia. thats better and more to my liking
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Brother shardamnay my views are clear, if u hold the authority to declrae thrm kfr, they will think justified in doing the same.
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according to me, shardamnay!, thats fine. so they should
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P.S: I read LA ILLAHA ILLalAHO MOHAMMAD A R RASUL ALLAH.
Thats niether make me sunni or shia, I am a muslim.
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that would be true ifyou didnt know anything else about islam.
the munafiqeen and murtadeen are expected to get through into Hajj
they have traditionally been into taqiyah, and under taqiyah we are not allowed to stop them if they feign islam. now we know alot more about them, the individual muslim, must take more precaution regards them.
as for pakistan… the less said about this the better. wedo have a blessed country where it is a criminal offence to be a shia. thats better and more to my liking
according to me, shardamnay!, thats fine. so they should
that would be true ifyou didnt know anything else about islam.
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- I didnt want to be at daggers drawn with anyone here but by reading ur posts I find it difficult to resist…
-Brother shardamnay you dont hold.the authority to judge anyone or declare kufar…Are u sitting in the heart of every shia that u know that they are doinh taqaiya…
-if u think you are to judge anyone murtid or munafik or kafir you then there is no need of judgment day and Then you are doing SHIRK.
P.s: Its bcs of Shardamnay type conservative mind ppl that we are facing sectarian problem in pak. SO.BEAWARE OF THEM.
Re: United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
^they only feed off the attention you are giving them. Just ignore and continue living your life like the rest of the people who want to grow, love and live and not go down, hate, and kill.
Re: United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
[QUOTE]
they have traditionally been into taqiyah, and under taqiyah we are not allowed to stop them if they feign islam. now we know alot more about them, the individual muslim, must take more precaution regards them.
as for pakistan... the less said about this the better. wedo have a blessed country where it is a criminal offence to be a shia. thats better and more to my liking
[/QUOTE]
salam
bro taqiya is a often misunderstood , its not simply a "shia" thing by any means but thats beyond the scope of our discussion.
But I would agree with you to a certain extent there should be AGGRESSIVE promotion of mainstream islam and strong laws against promotion of 12er imami views in a islamic country as the differences between fiqah jafriya and other muslim groups is not simply a difference of opinion but fundamental differences in aqeedah.
Re: United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
Salam
Yaar the debates that should have been academic have been very cheapened in the recent yrs because of mass availibity of information.No one wants to get to the depth of the matter, but merely wants to take potshots at the oppositte group.The simple answer to your question if i may give my $0.02 is that the beliefs of the people who were for or against uthman are not completely consistent with either sunnis of today or 12er imami shais of today.Best we can say all muslims at that time agreed on the leadership of Shaykhan Sayyidna AbuBakr and Umar R.A.Uthamn and ALi became rather controversial figures and remained so for several decades until in the time of Umar b ABdul Aziz R.A there was a genuine attempt to recouncile the community and bring all warring factions togather.This fusion of Pro-Alids Pro-Uthmanids, Neutrals and certain khariji factions became what Prof Qamar Zaman calls the Proto-Sunnis and led to the age of the 4 Imams of ahle sunnah.Thats why you find some very pro-ali ahadith and some very pro-ummayyad ahadith and some very neutralist ahadith in sunni works.
Imami 12ers evolved seperately and did not reach their present form until the time of As-Sadiq ( at the earliest) being a minority they were not compelled to develop any kind of recounciliation with other factions so could focus on a more revisionist version of history.This came increasingly hostile wrt to Sahaba esp Umar/AbuBakr and the gulf between imamis and other muslim groups widened.
Wrt Uthman’s murder, even if we assume some shady figure called ibn saba existed and incited a rebellion it does not in anyway explain the mass uprsisings against uthman and the destructive civil wars that followed.It was not a theological dispute that led to uthmans murder rather a fight over land rights, stipends and tribal supremacy.This is BLATANLY apparent in the historical records from that period.
Re: United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
Salam Yaar the debates that should have been academic have been very cheapened in the recent yrs because of mass availibity of information.No one wants to get to the depth of the matter, but merely wants to take potshots at the oppositte group.The simple answer to your question if i may give my $0.02 is that the beliefs of the people who were for or against uthman are not completely consistent with either sunnis of today or 12er imami shais of today.Best we can say all muslims at that time agreed on the leadership of Shaykhan Sayyidna AbuBakr and Umar R.A.Uthamn and ALi became rather controversial figures and remained so for several decades until in the time of Umar b ABdul Aziz R.A there was a genuine attempt to recouncile the community and bring all warring factions togather.This fusion of Pro-Alids Pro-Uthmanids, Neutrals and certain khariji factions became what Prof Qamar Zaman calls the Proto-Sunnis and led to the age of the 4 Imams of ahle sunnah.Thats why you find some very pro-ali ahadith and some very pro-ummayyad ahadith and some very neutralist ahadith in sunni works.
Imami 12ers evolved seperately and did not reach their present form until the time of As-Sadiq ( at the earliest) being a minority they were not compelled to develop any kind of recounciliation with other factions so could focus on a more revisionist version of history.This came increasingly hostile wrt to Sahaba esp Umar/AbuBakr and the gulf between imamis and other muslim groups widened.
Wrt Uthman's murder, even if we assume some shady figure called ibn saba existed and incited a rebellion it does not in anyway explain the mass uprsisings against uthman and the destructive civil wars that followed.It was not a theological dispute that led to uthmans murder rather a fight over land rights, stipends and tribal supremacy.This is BLATANLY apparent in the historical records from that period.
can not agree with this at all
Re: United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
Peace All Muslims,
With the start or near start of month of Moharram, heated discussions btw all sects start all over the net.All the threads in religious forum end up in fighting or bashing other sects.Same goes here,...... My real concern is that less than 1 % only provide solutions. So I find it my moral duty to unite muslims or even try it...(United in terms of tolerating eachothers believes...not combining all into one as it cant be accomplished)
Solution My Shia brothers plz plz plz stop insulting and bashing companions of Prophet PBUH and Mothers of Muslims....Ur Alim stated a Fatwa stating it is rendered haram by Ayatullah of Iran to do such things especially for Pakistani Shias as they live in a diverging society.
My Sunnu And Wahabi Brothers Your biggest complaint is same I just told above, so if Shias stop doing that you should tolerate their processions and respect them....Respect goes both ways.
We have fought for centuries proving eachother wrong and many more centuries will be wasted.Its time to start living with eachother.I need your help my brothers to unite muslims.Who is with my CAUSE?
P.S: Term Muslims include who atleast say Kalima Shahadah and believe on five pillars of Islams, including Mohammad SAWW as last prophet.
(i have tried to be short, but I can.give more explanation if required.)
If shias stop cursing the companions of Muhammad sallAllahu alayhe wasallam and the purified wives of Muhammad sallAllahu alayhe wasallam at least, we will easily coexist with them.
Re: United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
Peace stonecold,
Every one is welcome to contribute in peace making and unison of muslims.Sufis are no exceptions.....Shia Sunni wahabi are main actors of this dilema so I included them in title.
What about the other sects of shias such as Alawis (Nusairis) and Ismailis? 12wers do takfir on both of them.
Re: United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
I am optimistic about it.If I am true in my effort Allah will guide me and help me..... Always remember, you can contribute even a single word of yours can be helpful....so use ur words to make it possible.
Don't forget that Saiyidina Abu Bakr radiyallahu anhu fought the rejectors of Zakat after the Prophet of Islam s.a.w had passed away. Shias own that sect of the rejectors of Zakat, they claim they were the shias of Ali. Now do you expect us to consider them Muslims? By the way, if the whole Muslim world is hypothetically ruled by one Muslims Khalifah (from Ahl-as-Sunnah), shias will refuse to pay him their zakat as a rule. So don't you think the Khalifah is going to wage a war on them?
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If shias stop cursing the companions of Muhammad sallAllahu alayhe wasallam and the purified wives of Muhammad sallAllahu alayhe wasallam at least, we will easily coexist with them. .
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Only if you stop posting rubbish threads about us; we will then think about it...
Re: United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
Only if you stop posting rubbish threads about us; we will then think about it...
Why the truth seems rubbish to you?
United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
One mans truth is another mans rubbish.
Re: United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
One mans truth is another mans rubbish.
A man's rubbish who says his leader has been missing for 1200 years and he's still hiding somewhere in Bermuda Triangle?
Re: United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
can not agree with this at all
Nobody is asking you to agree bro
:)
difference of opinion is healthy
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A man's rubbish who says his leader has been missing for 1200 years and he's still hiding somewhere in Bermuda Triangle?
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Really? You believe in that? Well i never..,
Re: United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
Really? You believe in that?
I believe he was never born!
United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
Well...Good for you.
Re: United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
Only if you stop posting rubbish threads about us; we will then think about it...
Only if you stop posting rubbish threads about us; we will then think about it...
I dont think this is optional, if a sunni muslim state proclaims that its unlawful to curse any sahabi then it becomes law of the land.I don't see why imami shias dont appreciate the sunni consensus of conflicting views as its probably the only politically correct solution for a warring community to recouncile.Since the pro-ummayyad faction has largely disappeared for centuries and even the present day extremist sunnis who defend each and every action of ummayyads atleast refrain from cursing ali and his family.In other words the pro-uthmani party has moderated their views over the centuries not only accepting ali as a pious caliph ( which intitally they didnt at all) but also declared him right in ALL his conflicts, but shias have gone in the oppositte direction of being even more extreme.The partisans of ali used to revile uthman but they praised Umar/Abu Bakr and considered them rightful leaders, over centuries this trend in reverse with imami shias dissociating from nearrly all companions esp abubakr/umar.
Re: United Muslims: Shia+Sunnis+Wahabis
Des Reich no sunni (moderate, extremist, nasibi inclined etc) can curse Ali ra and his family.