Unhappy the land that needs heroes

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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There is a famous exchange in Brecht’s play ‘The life of Galileo’ that has a character saying ‘Unhappy the land that has no heroes’ to which Galileo replies ‘No, unhappy the land that needs heroes’. There is something in the mindset of many Pakistanies of my age that makes the susceptible to fantasies of deliverance by heroes.

I am one of the louder bashers of tsunami bringer Imran Khan sahab on this forum. Part of this is because his critical flaws lie along the fault line that most motivates me on this forum: religious fundamentalism and violence. But this is also because those who promote him do so with obstinate blindness, because they seem to want a hero that can save them at what seems to them a climactic moment.

The only people with a comparable level of infallibility are the two Bhuttos, although they werent canonized till they were dead.

Why is there a tendency to lionize leaders we like as them vs people destroying the country? As if it were a binary between choosing to save Pakistan vs letting the rest destroy it? Is it not far more realistic to say that we have a bunch of options, all with their own flaws. It is unlikely that any one person can change Pakistan’s deep structural social, cultural, economic, sectarian, terrorism problems, especially not in the short term. Even in the long term, it will be the result of a process of development instead of a moment of change.

I think this not only self-delusion, it has lead to more hysteria in our exchanges. Because these are charismatic heroes and not simply political options that may only be preferable to each other incrementally in the short term, the differences have to be stark. One side has to be perfect, the other side has to be malevolent.

Maybe Im just too pessimistic but I think we must consider a third option between ‘This will save us’ and ‘This wont save us’, which is ‘This wont change much, but gets my vote for well considered reasons’. And believe it or not, that may just be PTI on the day for me.

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Re: Unhappy the land that needs heroes

ummmm.... PTI 'followers' did criticize IK on these forums at least for his leanings towards extremist parties and his idiotic statements about NS being responsible for situation in Baluchistan. You won't see this kind of behavior from Bhutto loyalists, for example. A lot of PTI 'followers' have also suggested that they would stop supporting IK if certain personalities are inducted into the party. This is again not common.

What is interesting is consistent criticism (the OP is an example) for PTI for things the party has no influence over (e.g. the PTI internet jihadis or the people who join the party). PTI was even criticized for pathetic state of our education system here on these forums. Never in the history of Pakistan a political party been so much criticized which has absolutely never had any role in governing the country or any of its provinces.

Yes, PTI has many political slogans and promises which would never materialize. But then, by the same standards as OP, we need to judge those in comparison to what ever have as alternatives. I am not a 'supporter' of IK. Yes, there are many flaws and red flags in his political inclinations but what takes me closer to PTI is the pathetic, disgusting attempts at criticizing him and PTI at every available opportunity and for things which have nothing to do with PTI's credibility as a political force (a recent thread is an example here).

I have said it before and I say it again. It is not the charisma of IK or his leadership skills or his political acumen or a brilliant team or a very enticing agenda for 'change' that has attracted people towards him. It is rather been the disgusting vulture-like behavior of the alternative political forces over the last couple of decades that forces people people away from them and expect a ray of hope from PTI.

Not a hero... but a little less merciless politician, maybe?

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Re: Unhappy the land that needs heroes

I dont think people are looking up to Imran as a hero. People are just looking for a way out of the status quo, and just want an end to the blatant corruption going on in the country. Sad part is, there is no alternative other than Imran Khan, as that would have made the fight more interesting. But since there is none, people are looking up to Imran to at the very least, get Zardari and Sharif out of the picture. Then we take it from there. Imran is not going to get a free ride, that is for sure. As a matter of fact, he will be under a much bigger scanner, since he has made claims that are so juicy, they are making Pakistanis drool (eg, eliminate major corruption in 90 days).

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Re: Unhappy the land that needs heroes

I agree imran is in politics for the past 16 years or so, never have the people been so desperate and disillusioned as it stands now. Martial law is not an option, and the other two political parties have been used over and over but the situation has gone worse from bad. The support that imran is getting now is maybe not due to his own charisma as such, but people have started to feel as if they have no other choice. We have been repeating the same mistakes for the past 30 years, why not do a different mistake this time. The beauty of politics is that if he doesn't perform he will be booted out the next time, but we do need a third party to keep the traditional two in check.

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Re: Unhappy the land that needs heroes

I'll get this out of the way first. I dont criticize PTI or Imran Khan for things it does not influence. I criticize PTI for its affection for religious terrorists, fundamentalists and ahmadi bashers. PTI internet jihadies are an irritating phenomenon but should not be used to judge Imran Khan, just as jiyalay shouldnt be the measure by which we judge PPP.

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Re: Unhappy the land that needs heroes

Wanting to bring extremists into the mainstream, by neutralizing them and negotiating with them doesnt mean you are affectionate to them. Imran's 'affiliation' with pashtoons has been wrongly misinterpreted a lot, which is sad, because that is exactly the thing his opponents are using to play games with. If he is a proponent of a dialogue with those 'terrorists' who live here, and have been drawn into this 'war', then that means he wants to reform them, and make them a useful part of the country. They cant be deported elsewhere, because this is where they are from. Throwing them in jail by the thousands is not the answer either. This is about changing a mindset/ideology of an entire segment of society, not about punishing one or two bomb blasters.

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Re: Unhappy the land that needs heroes

^ I dont intend to re-debunk that argument so I’ll just link to the last time I did. Please go through the article and the responses to that particular point, and then come back if any specific point isnt addressed here: http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/552102-imrans-engagement-with-the-terrorists.html

All three of you have pointed out that if Imran Khan does not live upto expectations, the perception of him will quickly change. That is not a counterargument, as that is actually a feature of charismatic leaders (there really arent messiahs all that often), and that is what usually happens. You say that he has been around a long time therefore he cant be what is regarded as a ‘charismatic leader’. That is also untrue, since Hitler was around for ages as a fringe candidate before he suddenly achieved political success.

See here: Charismatic authority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All of you are disputing the idea that he is, infact, a charismatic hero figure. Yet in the same breath you mention disillusionment from terrible state of affairs and wanting to end corruption, and people are turning to Imran for that reason. That again is an example of the saviour idea, you feel like one individual can end systemic problems. Imran Khan himself talks about becoming part of the system when he inducts ‘senior politicians’ at high positions. I seem to even recall him saying he doesnt feel the ISI supporting him is a bad thing. When you’re a part of the system there is only a small change you can make even with the best of intentions. Whenever he actually obtains power, he will be much better served if his followers expect a small positive change, instead of ideas like ending corruption.

This is subjective ofcourse, but I do think my experience of the median Imran Khan supporter is quite different from you lot. You lot seem to suggest that Imran Khan voters are open to accepting criticism about him and dont view him as some kind of transformative figure (ala Obama, whose change mantra is something Imran Khan himself parrots). That is quite different from my experience, both on this forum and in real life. On this forum, there is usually stiff resistance on Imran Khan’s clear record lobbying for religious terrorists and courting their vote. I’ve encountered the same in real life.

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Re: Unhappy the land that needs heroes

Jesus!!
dude come back. seriously!

Here is few things.
Did zardari stay up all night planning how to destroy every institution ?? NO
All he had to do was be dishonest.

Now if any ABC come in power who is not dishonest. What you think would happen ??

When allah say be truthfull/honest/passionate, he don't lay down a 190 days plan.
Things get better. Now all those thing are very obvious to a layman like my self.

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Re: Unhappy the land that needs heroes

^ Im really not sure what your point is! Please explain..

I ought to say that this wasnt intended as a thread for criticizing Imran Khan, but the nature of politics our country seems to have, and why even educated people buy into that mentality. Imran Khan happens to be two things a) The current messiah figure and b) The person I've criticized most often recently. There have been previous hero figures, Chief Justice, BB, Altaf (for muhajirs), Musharraf, Bhutto spring to mind. This thread was infact prompted by the thread kakaballi alludes to with the jewish conspiracy thing. This is what happens when your politics is about personalities. If he isnt a saviour he must be made out to be some kind of Dr. Doom. If you think about Obama, he was the messiah for democrats and the anti-christ for some republicans. Neither is true.

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Re: Unhappy the land that needs heroes

Revage yaar kuch nahee hota.
We can't make our self sick thinking about mass mentality.

One thing which IK critics use against him(which is actually a good news) that PTI supporter have short memory span.
Or they are not the sticky kind.
OR.. OR they wont turn into jyalas.

There are many thing into play here. Just hope we come out from current mess.

Yaar log bohat tang heen.... shuker karo they did not start seeing IK in moon or sun...
you know.....

Its not a normal time, even with pakistani standard of normal.
Like hazrat umer said "during famine there wont be punishment"
So just hope every thing comes into hand of people again rather then PPP.

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Re: Unhappy the land that needs heroes

Ravage your argument about having a real hero verses finding a sham is theoretically correct. But it may not be applicable for all practical purposes. There is no universal yardstick for the characteristics of a hero. Somone who helps you out in a dire situion maybe a hero of yours while he is a nobody for the rest of the world. Imran is a mere mortal and that's how he should be seen. What kakaballi says is absolutely true for Imran:

When you assess Imran, do not negate your circumstances or you will arrive at a wrong conclusion. The present political context is what we need to see Imran against and once you do it, you may feel an urge in you to make a fresh start — or a fresh mistake instead of repeating old ones. The theory of siding with the lesser evil comes into play in our part of the world when we see sharks all around us. We are simply not talking about handing the reins over to an angel, we just want to save the reins from the known scoundrels.

Imran may not be the best — but he is surely not the worst.

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Re: Unhappy the land that needs heroes

^ What you are describing is a healthy attitude of realistically assessing the negatives of every politician, and clearheadedly choosing the one your conscience allows you to vote for (or not vote for anyone if your conscience says that too). Siding with the lesser evil, thats how it should be, instead of expecting a trasformative moment whereby one or many of Pakistan's deep problems is fixed. I have no problems with someone voting for or supporting Imran Khan so long as they acknowledge and accept his 'evil' even if they feel it is lesser relative to the rest.

I remember I used to have similar ideas, for similar reasons, about Musharraf. There was the same talk about ending corruption, restoring national honour, instituting a meritocracy etc. I remember voting for him in the referendum and not washing my blue thumb out of pride that I was helping someone who'd bring change. I was in my 20s then and Im in my 30s now, and feel I know better than to buy into these kinds of messianic ideas associated with any single personality or moment in our history, especially with zero evidence. It is disappointing for me when I see such mentality widespread, and with people as old, or much older than me.

@Monk, you say the charismatic leader mentality is harmless. I think its actually quite harmful. It prefers short-termism and grand gestures instead of real, systematic, long-term change. Musharraf promised to end corruption in six months (as far as I remember). Imran Khan promises to end it in 90 days. The first thing he wants to do to address Pakistan's deep economic problems is to bulldoze Pakistan's state/governor houses. Even if that was a good idea, putting that as the first thing you'd want to do to fix Pakistan is clearly indicating the bluster-filled quickfix oriented political culture and the promises he feels he needs to make to sustain his 'tsunami', his 'wave of change'.

So it isnt just an academic debate, its a criticism of a mindset in Pakistani public dating back to maybe Bhutto that places far too much stock in personalities bringing radical transformations, and far too little in incremental change through democratic processes.

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Re: Unhappy the land that needs heroes

I have invested in him an amont of hope which will not make me 'bankrupt' in case if my investment sinks. Granted that Imran is no panacea for all the ills we are plagued with. But if he gets to control the reins and we are not strangled any further, I would consider that my investment is yeilding results.

We have solid reasons to hate PPP and PMLs for their performances. But we cannot hate PTI because it was never in power. That PTI is doomed to fail will always be just an argument based on our assumptions, but it cannot be a reality until it gets power and proves itself a failure.

If we really hate PTI for any reason whatsoever, let it prove that it is a failure by voting it into power and letting it destroy itself by its performance, or lack of it. And what a good, solid and legitimate riddance it would be. And if, by chance, it proves even half as good as it promises, we will still be better than what we are today. It's a win-win situation for the people.

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Re: Unhappy the land that needs heroes

Imran is hero for cricket fans.....

As far as hero as a politician is concerned i think still he is not in a position to be a hero or a villain in pakistani history........

The phase through which imran going right now is not appropriate to decide his heroism....once he forms government then it will be easy to decide....

No other leader was declared hero in this phase....