very nice indeed:k:
id like to know how come that most people -even in this forum- would argue that the Qur’an is soooo difficult it needs understanding from an outside source hint hint
Re: Re: Understanding the Qur'an
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by NeSCio: *
id like to know how come that most people -even in this forum- would argue that the Qur'an is soooo difficult it needs understanding from an outside source hint hint
[/QUOTE]
Its true; We can not understand Quran without a guide appointed by Allah the Almighty. In deed, the Holy Prophet (PBUH) is the first guide Imam Mehdi (AS) will the last one. Of course Allah has made Quran easy for us. He sent us these guides. Its up to us we follow them or not. I will quote you the same Quranic verse.
Qur'an states:
"Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in your tongue, in order that they may give heed." (Ad-Dakhan 44:58)
The following Aya came to make you understand that you must have to use your mind to understand the basics of religion. If you are intelligent and using your Aqal, then you will decide that Quran and the guide comes together.
"They will say: 'Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we would not (now) be among the Companions of the Blazing Fire!'" (Al-Mulk 67:10)
Okay! My question to you? in the above verse, where it is said that we have to follow only the teachings of quran. First of all you have to prove this. These verses are simply saying listen or use intelligence.
Without a teacher, what is the value of book?
Re: Re: Understanding the Qur’an
just tell yaar kay u deny hadeeth.. itnaa khap daalnay kee kiyaa zaroorat hay :~)?
Re: Re: Re: Understanding the Qur’an
i think u and innuit are missing the hint hint in the end 
and pray tell, when did I say I denied (the existence of) Hadith? there is a difference between questioning and rejecting…please do not misquote things to sound more dramatic than it really is
Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding the Qur’an
lol NeSCio bhai
You always have doubts in the authenticity of ahaadeeth as per what you ask question about and as per how you criticize Saheeh Bukhari and other books thus not beleiving in the contents of those books (the only source of hadith) and therefore, do deny ahaadeeth.. so it always gives us the impression that the ahaadeeth references are invalid infront of you .. please, correct me if I am wrong :).. I hope I am in this case 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding the Qur’an
is it prohibited to ask questions? what if I’m asking them to gain insight in people’s thinking? Why wud it be a bad things to ask questions? Isn’t it better to ask questions than to walk around with doubt only cuz people expect you to believe them blindly?
this is CLEARLY a false stream of thoughts. ‘critisizing’ does NOT automatically mean ‘not believing’. E.g. if a cricket coach critisizes his team, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t believe in the team’s ability. He critisizes his team to get the rough edges out. To see what stability the team has. (Of course if he finds too many flaws in his team, he will try to find explanations for them, and try to straighten them)
again, false argumentation ur using: quesitoning is something totally different from denying. Although denying CAN be a result of the answer you get to your questions…as is accepting
if that’s the impression you people get, then it’s your problem. I will keep on asking (challenging or less challenging) questions.
I think Ive become immune by now to your people’s jazbaati reaction every time I ask a (hypothetical) question which is meant to improve the stream of thought and get us thinking deeper about the matter in hand, but instead lightens up a sparkle of hate/prejudice/arrogance against the person bringing it up…let alone even respecting the fact that people might have different (flawed or not) opinions about different matters, be it religious matters.
at least you admit you can be wrong too…for me that’s already a good enough step ahead
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding the Qur'an
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by NeSCio: *
is it prohibited to ask questions? what if I'm asking them to gain insight in people's thinking? Why wud it be a bad things to ask questions? Isn't it better to ask questions than to walk around with doubt only cuz people expect you to believe them blindly?....
[/QUOTE]
as someone said it... there are different categories of "Questions". One is is asked to show how intelligent you are, how much knowledge you have. One question is asked to put down others. One is asked to gain knowledge.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding the Qur’an
nuff said :k:
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding the Qur'an
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
as someone said it... there are different categories of "Questions". One is is asked to show how intelligent you are, how much knowledge you have. One question is asked to put down others. One is asked to gain knowledge.
[/QUOTE]
pray tell, how you know which type of question I'm asking?
These directives of asking the questions are with regards to the intention of the student asking the question. Not only in Islam, rather in any study, the student can either ask the question to understand the subject or to raise fingers on others. In any case, Islam's directives are of personal nature directed towards the intention of the student, the rest is left up to the student. Only the student understands what his aims are and whether he wants to attack the religion or wants to understand the subject.
From a learning point of view, the instructor should be prepared to handle the questions or should politely mention the areas where he does not contain the knowledge and research or refer to others for details. Many a times, Muslims take it to the heart when they do not know the answer to a problem. I hope this changes with time, and Muslims are able to understand Islam better and present it better to others.
That is the reason why I agree with the fact that Qur'an has not been understood and this is the only Book that can revive the religion if understood and practiced to its fullest.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Understanding the Qur’an
There is a difference between **questioning the religion ** and asking questions about it.
Hm. Regarding the issue of Hadith. As far as I know, the Quran has been protected by Allah SWT, whereas the Hadith have not, and are therefore subject to human error. Therefore, although I read the Hadith as guidelines for my daily behavior and reflect upon their teachings, they don't carry the same weight that the Quran does in my understanding.
Hadith isnt as an equal with Quran.Nothing is.There are authentic ahaadith- and we shouldnt say they have all been altered.And the Sunnah way of life (of Prophet Muhammed:saw: )- we have that to guide us also.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Muslim_Queen: *
There are authentic ahaadith- and we shouldnt say they have all been altered.
[/quote]
how do you know, MQ?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sahar02: *
how do you know, MQ?
[/QUOTE]
Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim are the two most authentic books after the Qur’ân. There are no fabricated hadîth in these two books. We know this for the following reasons:
Al-Bukhârî and Muslim made it a condition not to record in their books any hadîth that were not authentic. Al-Bukhârî said: “I did not place in my book anything that is not authentic. I left out a number of authentic hadîth so the book would not be overly long.” He also said: “I did not place in my book anything that is not authentic. I left out more authentic hadîth than I recorded.”
MQ: Thanks. I generally agree with you. But then we come across Hadith like the ones mentioned in this thread:
http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135927
This one is a Bukhari Hadith, I think. What’s your take on this?
I myself have not read it, and neither am I familiar with it.However Im no scholar to be able to interpret that hadith in anyway.Most of the time its we -who misinterpret what can be the true hadith. I dont think I could take anything out of context anyhow.
Even if there were a technical flaw in a hadith, it does not necessarily mean that the hadith is not an authentic one. Authenticity and weakness are two different concepts.
Some people use the weak hadith defense, because they approach Muhammad :saw: with their own wishful presupposition. So, they automatically reject any hadith that does not meet the standard of their assumptions. Our beliefs should be grounded in historical reality: not wishful assumptions.To judge the authenticity of a hadith is an illegitimate standard. Present-day beliefs don’t determine the events of the past.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Muslim_Queen: *
Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim are the two most authentic books after the Qur’ân. There are no fabricated hadîth in these two books. We know this for the following reasons:
Al-Bukhârî and Muslim made it a condition not to record in their books any hadîth that were not authentic. Al-Bukhârî said: “I did not place in my book anything that is not authentic. I left out a number of authentic hadîth so the book would not be overly long.” He also said: “I did not place in my book anything that is not authentic. I left out more authentic hadîth than I recorded.”
[/QUOTE]
This was their claim; however they were not masoom, so we can do believe in them blindly.
the authenticity of shahih has been proved after reaserch …all hadiths according to sunni believe in shahih bukhari are shahih(authentic) …as it is not a complete book of hadith …just some selected shahih hadith are compiled in this book…shahih bukhari i mean…
we can not interpret quran ,…until we have hadith with us…hadith are best source for interpreting quran…rejecting shahih hadith means rejecting quran…for the simple reason…both reached us from the same group of persons…
Correct me if I'm wrong.. but even Sunni Scholars have investigated and found problems with many hadiths in the compilations of Bukhari and Muslim etc.
Secondly bao bihari, what tells us that Qur'an reached us through the same sources as hadith?? hadiths themself right?? that's hardly a scholarly way of forming an opinion.
And what gets passed down as 'authentic' or 'Sahih' is nothing more than scholarly opinion.. or consensus of a group of scholars.. Surprisingly enough the criteria are so weak that i wouldn't attend a free dinner party based on such a weak authentication of information.
That's not to say another group of scholars do not reject it or don't have objections to the same narrationd. The whole hadith thing has been treated with kid gloves. It's time for Sunni, Shia, Ahmedi and whatever sect is present under the sun that wants to affiliate itself to Islam to form a joint commission and find the real truth behind this corpse of Muslim writings... they can borrow the services of scholars of other religious persuasions who are experts in the fields of history and archaelogy.
Settle the discussion once and for all .. cuz if it's declared to be authentic by people of all persuasions, then it is worth considering as religious text and obeying or forming your religion in the light of it.