Uncovering the face of "true islam"! the truth of the quotes! (public opinion wanted)

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

A respected member, mr. extreme has been giving such quotes by the leader of my religion, which were contextually and translationally distorted.

I thought that most of the audience is mature enough to ignore such gimmickry, but an inreasing number of emails which call for explanation, persuaded me to start this thread.

Although i can claim the falsehood of all the quotes, but in order to keep the thread short and to the point, and to save my respected fellow from excessive embarssment, i am starting with two examples:

Mr extreme claims to follow the true islam, saying the ahmedis are kafir! For this he started a thread where he said that the ahmedis claim that mirxa sahab has a higher status than prophet mohammad, peace and blessings of allah be upon him.

Hereby i give the distorted quote and the original quote, and leave the decision to the audience:

----------------------- ** First Example: **

this statment has been used by a number of such “true muslims” who resort to gimmickry!
i will not say anything with my own words, please look at the original quote and give your opinion about the “true islam”.

now what shall i say? if there is even a tiny drop of shame and truth in mr extreme, he should jump in a well and kill himself out of shame!

----------------------- ** Second Example: **

mr ludhyaanwi, a popular anti-ahmedi molvi, used this quote, as has been reproduced my mr extreme from a website, giving it a heading: " mirza afzalur rusul"

However, actually this quote can not mean that mirza sahab is greater than prophet mohammad (saw) because the original text is:

Now please tell me, how many RASOOLS have descended in these 1300 years, that mirza shab could claim that he is the most afzal of them?

---------------------- ** conclusion **

People have been very efficient in cursing mirza sahab for the above mentioned quotes ** Does anyone have such shame and courage in them to curse mr extreme for posting lies?? **

No! none of you will curse him, yet encourage him! because such is what your religion teaches you! Curse be on such a religion which teaches its followers to speak lies to make personal attcks, and to practise gimmickry!

O my god, thank you very much for making me a kafir! thank you very much for not associating me with such people as those who practice the “true islam”!

[This message has been edited by jewels of insignificance (edited June 17, 1999).]

2

salams n stuff,

i m not a ahmedi but just wana say this..

people just tend to listen to a few things and then just start believing in it. I bet many of these ppl who have posted anti- articles about ahmedi have never cared to find any proofs for themselves. They just came out on ahmedi-bashi on wot they just heard from others.

You wer doing fine in the article till u started to loose it in the end when u mentioned bout ' your religion teaches you'
but arnt we all the same ?

w-salams n stuff
Jai Peeri.

3

dear peersimms,
thank you very much for the input! atleast there is someone who would condemn lies!

There were a lot of names pretty active in congratulating mr extreme! where have they run away now? why have no comments been added from them?

such is their behaviour! and then they tell me to leave ahmediyyat and accept their religion, sunnism! curse, i repeat, curse be on such a religion who compells it followers to lie!

4

J.O.I - YAY SACHI BAAT HAI KAY LOOG AADHI BAAT SUN KAY BARAY BARAY FAISLAY KER LAYTAY HAIN AUR HUMARAY DEENMAIN AISAY FAISLAY AUR FATWAY KAFI KASRAT KAY MAUJOOD HAI.. AIK DIN MERI AIK HINDU SAHAYLEE NAY KAHA KAY TUM BUDDHU LOOG JISS KITAB KO SIR PAY UTHAY PHIRTAY HO US KAY KHILAF AMAL KERTAY HO.. JAB MAI NAY WAZAHAT POOCHI TO KAHNAY LAGEE KAY QURAN MAY TO LIKHA HAI "NAMAZ KAY KA KAREEB NA JAO" AUR TUM LOOG HER WAQT NAMAZ NAAMZ KERTAY RAHTAY HO.. CHAUNKA DEYA US KI IS BAAT NAHY.. GHER AA KAY POORI AAYAT PERHI TO LIKHA THA "NAMAZ KAY QAREEB NA JAO, AGER TUM NASHAY KI HALAT MAY HO...." (ABHI AYAT NUMBER BHOOL GAEE HOON, YAAD AAEE TO BTA DOON GEE).. AB AAP HI BTAIN KYA KEYA JAYE IN LOOGON KA.. IN HE CHOTEE CHOTEE BATOON NAY BATANGER BNA DEYA HAI ZINDAGEE KO... ALLAH HE KHAIR KERAY HUM SAB PAY.. [PS: YOUR FIRST QUOTE ABOVE IS QUITE IMPRESSIVE]

CHANDA

[This message has been edited by CHANDA (edited June 17, 1999).]

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Chanda.
aap baat to bilkul sachchi kehti ho!

Aadhi baat sun kay baray baray faislay kerna to bura hai hee, magar yahaan to dekho, kay jaan boojh ker, siraf defematory purposes kay liye, aadhi baat batayee jaa rahi hai!
pata nahee yeh konsa islam hai!
meri to samajh say bahir hai!

aur aisay log bhee mojood hain, jo barh barh kay mr extreme ko shabashiyaan dete thay, kay wah subhanallah, tere sadqay jaain, too nay kya kaarnama ker diya! aur ab jhoot saamnay aaya hai, to koi condemn kernay ko tayyaar nahee!

apnay yeh halaat hain, aur mujhay kehtay hain, tum jhootay ho, tumhara religion jhoota hai! ina lillahe wa ina alaihe raj'oon.

Aur haan, ayat number yaad rakhna ya likhna koi zaroori nahee. Us ki zaroorat siraf formal discussions main hoti hai, jab ayat ka context zaroori ho, ya aapis main aik doosray pur aitbaar na ho. you dont need to mention the ayat number, atleast when talking to me. I have developed a vague picture of the topics of koran over the years, and such things as are important enough to remember always stay in mind, sometimes even their exact location and context. Secondly, jab aap nay koi ayat parhi hai, to yaqeenan aap such keh rahi hon gi! kam az kam main to aik imaandar person pay aitbaar ker sakta hoon. chahay ayat number likha huwa ho, ya na ho.

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salams n stuff,

bibi loogh zara urdu per haath halka rakhain
some of it is going over my head :slight_smile:
i know i know Ardu Kamjoor howay Hamaar

http://www.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif

w-salams n stuff
Jai Peeri.

7

Hmm jewels saahib. Can u plz explain me ur beliefs being an Ahmadi? I mean what rules do u people follow and how do u differ from the other sects? I'm curious to learn about it. No offense plz.

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Dear sir,
It would be a bit difficult to explain the beleifs in this thread. It would be very nice of you to email me with your address, so that i can give you an introduction. In this way it will be easy for you to catch up with the current discussions.

my email address is availabie in my profile, but for your conveniance,
[email protected]

Please also inform me in your email if you are able to read urdu text, as then it will be easier for me to give you original writing of our founder, who has been misquoted in one of the above exaples.

And certainly it was no offense, but an honour.

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Thanx Jewelz. My addy is: [email protected]
I wud greatly appreciate ur mail and yes I can read urdu text as well :)

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Hey jewels
i couldn’t post here because I was not coming here to this section.

Welllllll!!! I can see clearly whom you’re talking about without saying the name…

Thanks for posting the right sayings of Mirza Sahib.

believe me, now I don’t support anyone here. I support only what I believe.

when I supported extreme there in the thread it was all because I was kind of angry to see Zalim’s post there in the other thread.

Hope you understand.

Your mail is yet to be answered and I have yet to read a part of it… hopefully I will answer it in the next few months. :)As it is going to take ages for me to read every part of it and understand it. :slight_smile:

Hum Sa!! Yaar, I couldn’t open that Urdu text file.

http://www.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif

Mera computer budtameez ab boorha ho giya hai. Hope you will be able to read it.. agar samajh aa jai to us ko JPG main convert kar kay mujhay mail kar dena. :slight_smile:

DD :slight_smile:

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jee jee, ( keyboard theek hai jee! )

i was angry at zalim about that too! bechara, was leaving for ny ( from toronto ), and wanted to have a last thread requesting istakhara prayer about the truth of mirza sahab.

it was about two days left, mainay us ko daant diya, bechara naraaz ho kay bataye beghair chala gaya!

dee dee, i will shortly be leaving for lahore, as i have to go for an interview, i can stay for one day, at the most. i'll be back on 25th of july. only then can i promise a jpeg version of the text.

infact i'm starting it now, i have two hours free which i can all utilize, and if i'm done i'll come in here and type in the address, or send it to you by email.

12

Jewels,

First of all, my nick is not Mr extreme, it is Mr Xtreme. A small but significant difference. I am sure you would not want me to take liberties with your nick, such as calling you Jew of Insignificance so kindly show a little care when referring to me.

No, I will not be jumping into any wells to kill myself, my breathless Qadiani friend. You see, there is no way to verify that your quotes are the correct translations of these works as the Qadianis won't allow translation of the Mirza's works. The words of the Sunni scholars are tested against the Qur'an and Sunnah which are widely available to everyone. Why should we accept your word over a Sunni scholar? Who is to say you are not just making it all up in order to discredit me? As if I care.

The Ahmadis are known to have altered their writings before when they conflicted with the Qur'an, describing it as a typographical error so I take your version of these quotes with a pinch of salt.

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Jewels, I successfully opened the file. Thankyou very much. I'll be going thru it in peace very soon.
Dee Dee...Hey i opened it..how come u didn't? :)Don't u have acorbat reader? I'll try converting the file into something else for u though :)

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For examples of Ahmedis altering the text of Qur’an go to http://alhafeez.org/rashid/alter/alter3.htm

Ahmedis are constantly updating and reviewing the works of Ghulam Mirza so that their tracks are covered when they are exposed.

15

Mr Xtreme,
Just remember one thing, Like you once said FEAR NO ONE BUT ALLAH, so prayer to Allah and seek guidence like it said in Surrah Fateha. Don't follow the path of those peoples who were cursed. Believe me, you are not the first who spread hatered against us, we had millions of them and none of them were able to acheive any thing against us. I only have one message for every body (including Mr. XTREME)

    LOVE FOR ALL HATERED FOR NONE

And answer to you other question that why Mirza Sahib books are not widely available, check Pakistani Law and you will know why. Like I promised before and again offer everybody, if you need any Mirza Sahib book let me know and I will send it to you.

16

Mtanweer,

Yes I fear Allah, so much so that I would not dare to believe the words of a false prophet who claims to have superceded Hazrat Mohammed sal'allahu'alaihi'wasallam. Someone who has changed the very fabric of the holy Qur'an and abrogated it's passages.

Remember, you are not in Pakistan now, so you have no excuse for your books not being widely available. I am not interested in any updated books that you might send me. I am more interested in the originals which you have hidden from the public because they are a flat contradiction to what Islam teaches.

As far as I can see, the biggest enemies of the Ahmedis are not Devil-worshippers, Christians, Hindus, or atheists. Those whom you reserve your greatest hatred for is the orthodox muslims who follow Qur'an and Sunnah. Well don't blame us blame Allah(Naoz'billah), for giving us this book with it's injunctions and sending us the Prophet(SAW) with his message. This is what we follow and Allah knows best.

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mr extreme,
it is clear shamelessness on your part.

The quotes that you gave were given by a sunni molvi saab, who was ** NOT ** a scholars and ** never claimed to be one **.

And such a reply as had been given to him as has been given to you. I can send you the book but it is not available openly because the author that published it was killed, and the book was banned.

As for why ahmedi books are not widely available, who said that? ahmedi books are widely available!

infact i'm in pakistan, a MUSLIM and anti-qadiani country, i have most of the books of mirza sahab, and since one year i have not found a set of sahih bokhari! this means islam is false?

I just sent a copy of a book to Hum sa ho t samnay aaye, and he can tell you it was not very difficult to get it!

i hereby make another offer that of someone wants any book of mirza sahab to confirm the quotes, and know his teachings, i can send them to him, free of cost, paying the shipping and potage myself.

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hum sa ho to samnay aaye and dee dee,

i did make half of it in jpg files, but its time for me to leave now. i'll be having an interview on 25th of july, i'll be back by 26th to complete it and send it to you dee dee. :)

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dear mr.xtreme,
assalamo alaium. i am glad to see your interest in religion but u have to have it without any biasness, right? as for your question, about amendments in mirza sahib's books, let me answer it.
these books have been printed some 100 years ago. there were scores of typing errors but the way they have been removed is
not as u have mentioned. all the mistakes were corrected in "hashia" below the page. this way u cannot only see what the mistake was but also can see the original stuff. NONE of mirza sahib's books have been edited. is it clear?
secondly, mirza sahib never claimed to be superior to hadhrat Mohammad(SAW). U took the
quoatations from anti ahmadi literature. if u really wish to seek the right path, go thru the original books.this will give u a better picture. also please seek guidance from Allah . HE IS ALIVE! He will surely lead u towards the right path. this needs whole heartedly prayers. try it. i hope u reply positively. God bless u.

20

Tempest 101,

Thank you for your explanation. As you say, ahmediyyat movement has a 100 year history. As you also will know, Islam has a history of over 1400 years. Many scholars and Imams have been and gone in that time. Scholars who were interested only in viewing the world through "Islamic eyes". Not viewing Islam through Western eyes.

Why don't you illuminate me who is teaching "true" Islam?