Umar(ra) refused to give the PEN to the Prophet(sa) – "is it TRUE"?

Rational and all,

Rational's statement: "First of all the Prophet (PBUH) was not a man of letters, so if anything he would have told the Ashab-e-Ikram on their faces on whom should succeed him, if he so wished."

The message was adequately communicated but majority chose to ignore it and now spend their time & energy twisting the truth.

Remember Ghader-e-Khum! Could you pls tell me what the Prophet announced to those gathered by holding the arms up high of Hazrat Ali(as)! Pls repeat that for me and the subsequent events.

Without this successor (Religious Authority) to lead Ummah: Islam is like a headless corpse and Quran a book of parables unintelligible to most. Read this again and tell me that this is not the state of the ummah today!

Instead of following the Quran with the 'Religious Authority' appointed by Divine authority as its Interpreter & Guide, the majority have made the writings of Bukhari, Muslims, etc into that "Religious Authority" or the Guide & the sunnah as the interpretations of the Quran for all eternity.

With this action, they have made Islam to look like the 7th century for all eternity.

bismihi Ta’ala
assalam o alaikum …

br. Zalim, i am not saying that you are incorrect. perhaps the version of Bukhari that you possess has been doctored. i’ll need to verify this myself, and would request that you share the complete details of the title,

a. the translator
b. the publisher
c. the edition
d. the total number of the volumes to the set

research shows that the ahlal sunna have been distorting their texts, and further to this evidence is this web site

Investigating Distortions in Islamic Texts
http://www.al-islam.org/tahrif

for you solace, i am appending detailed references to the incident, that i have taken from the Bukhari in my possesion

in more detail

and for

in detail as

if you so desire, the same can be done with the references from Muslim’s sahih.

and lastly, the sura which admonishes the wives of the Prophet (sallalahu alaihas salams) is Sura Tahrim, Chapter 66, with reference to the 'Aisha and Hafsa,

It is well-known that the following verses of Quran were revealed about 'Aisha and Hafsa:

In al Bukhari’s Sahih, in a chapter titled: **“It may be, if he divorces you, that his Lord (Allah) will give him, instead of you, wives better than you … **(Quran, 66:5),” v6, p410, tradition: 438] we read:

Also in al Bukhari’s Sahih, chapter: And (remember) 'When the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to one of his wives … (66:3) v6, p408, tradition: 436]

Moreover, a tradition states that the Prophet seperated from 'Aisha and Hafsa for one full month as a punishment for revealing the secret, as stated in al Bukhari’s Sahih, chapter: The advice of a man to his daughter regarding her husband, v7, p87, tradition: 119]

Also in al Bukhari’s Sahih, chapter:** Seeking to please your wives .. **(66:1) Allah has already ordained for you (O men) the dissolution of your oaths. (66:2) v6, p405, tradition: 435]

Maududi while commenting on the incident, states,

And in his commentary of the above verses, he says:

And also

hopefully this will shed light on the matter

regards

Ali Abbas

www.al-islam.org/index

[This message has been edited by AliAbbas (edited August 11, 2000).]*

Bismillah,

Here is an article i have taken from islam-qa.com

Is there any evidence that the Prophet Muhammad was unable to read or write?

Praise be to Allaah.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
"Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read not write whom they find written with them in the Tawraat and the Injeel, - he commands them for al-Ma’roof (i.e., Islamic monotheism and all that Islaam has ordained); and forbids them from al-Munkar (i.e., disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islaam has forbidden); he allows them as lawful al-Tayyibaat (i.e., all good and lawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.), and prohibits them as unlawful al-khabaa’ith (i.e., all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.), he releases them from their heavy burdens (of Allaah’s Covenant) and from the fetters (bindings) that were upon them. So those who believe in him (Muhammad), honor him, help him and follow the light (the Qur’aan) which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful."
[al-A’raaf 7:157]

Al-Qurtubi, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in his tafseer of this aayah: "Allaah says ‘al-ummi.’ Ibn ‘Abbaas, may Allaah be pleased with him, said: ‘Your Prophet was unlettered, unable to read or write or calculate.’ Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Neither did you (O Muhammad) read any book before it (this Qur’an), nor did you write any book (whatsoever) with your right hand . . .’
[al-‘Ankaboot 29:48]."

Ibn Katheer, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in his tafseer of the second aayah quoted [al-‘Ankaboot 29:48]:
"Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Neither did you (O Muhammad) read any book before it (this Qur’aan), nor did you write any book (whatsoever) with your right hand . . .’ i.e., ‘you (O Muhammad) lived among your people for a while before you brought this Qur’aan to them, and you never read any book or were able to write anything. Everyone among your people and others knows that you are an unlettered man, who does not read or write.’ This is how he was described in the previous Books as Allaah said (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read not write whom they find written with them in the Tawraat and the Injeel, - he commands them for al-Ma’roof (i.e., Islamic monotheism and all that Islaam has ordained); and forbids them from al-Munkar (i.e., disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islaam has forbidden) . . .’ [al-A’raaf 7:157].

Hence the Prophet will remain unable to write even one line or one letter, until the Day of Resurrection. He had scribes who would write down in front of him the Revelation and letters to different regions. . . . Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘. . . In that case, indeed, the followers of falsehood might have doubted.’ [al-‘Ankaboot 29:48], i.e., if you had been good at it (reading and writing), some of the ignorant people would have doubted you and said that you had learnt this from the previous Books left by the Prophets. Indeed, they say this despite the fact that they know he was unlettered and unable to write, as it says in the Qur’aan (interpretation of the meaning): ‘And they say: "Tales of the ancients, which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon."’ [al-Furqaan 25:5]"

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"He it is Who sent among the unlettered ones a Messenger from among themselves, reciting to them His Verses, purifying them (from the filth of disbelief and polytheism), and teaching them the Book and al-Hikmah (al-Sunnah). And verily, they had been before in manifest error."
[al-Jumu’ah 62:2]

Al-Qurtubi, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in his tafseer of this aayah:
"It was said: ‘the unlettered ones’ means those who do not write. Such were the Quraysh. Mansoor reported from Ibraaheem, who said: ‘Al-ummi (the unlettered one) is the one who neither reads nor writes. "A Messenger from among themselves" means Muhammad , who was unlettered and never read a book nor learned how.’ Al-Mawardi said: ‘What is good about the fact that Allaah sent an unlettered Prophet? There are three things:
(i) his message fulfilled the foretelling of the previous Prophets;
(ii) this made him similar to and closer to other Prophets;
(iii) this would eliminate all suspicion that he had learned the message he preached from books and writings that he had read."

I say: all of this is evidence of the miraculous nature and truth of his Prophethood.

(The above has been summarized from the Tafseer of al-Qurtubi, may Allaah have mercy on him).


The Hadis about Umar(RA) refusing to give pen or something to write on seems to be incorrect. Here some Scholars say that UMAR(RA) has stressed upon The Quran being the source of guidence. Though i feel it was wrong to refuse giving the stuff but Since the Holy Prophet(PBUH) could not read or write then how can this Hadis be correct??

Brother Ali Abbas;

Thank you for posting the Quranic ayat showing the behaviour or Ayesha and hafsa and Allah's (swt) admonishment to them

I didn't have time to post it. I have my hand full on this board countering so many brothers and sisters at one time.

Reminds me of Imam Ali (as) fighting the war of Khaibar single handedly when the rest of the prophets companions were defeated or ran from battle.

Oops, there I go again.

Acha Bacha,

the hadith on Umar not allowing the messenger to write is in your Sahih (authentic) books. By your own ulemas' admissions, these sahih books are supposed to be the absolute truth after the holy Qur'an.

Or are you now doubting your own sahihs.

Very interested in yr opinion.

Wa salam.

Bismillah,
Oh yes That Hadis is there and i have read it many times now. It seems that there is contradiction between this Hadis and Other ones. I asked an Alim on this Hadis and He said that in the context of this Hadis what is shown to us that The Quran is The Ultimate Book And Is SUFFICIENT for us.
I am still not convinced. I belive that here the Hadith has been altered as the Prophet (PBUH) Was Unlettered. He would have simply announced in Public anything that may have been of guidence.

So there is a mistake in the Sahih?
Being nuetral i am forced to say that yes it appears so :-(. But indeed the Sahih's Do tell Us a lot of the Holy Prophets(PBUH) Actions. If only you Shias would read them not by the intention of finding a mistake in them but by the intention of taking guidence from them.

Oh and By the Way i am not Convinced That Hazrat Umar(RA) was the type of person shias think he was. There are MANY Hadis in the Sahih which praise Umar(RA). Are They All fabricated.? no i dont think so.

Allah Hafiz

Acha bacha;

Good boy;

Thats the way to go. When someone gives you proof. At first deny the existence of this evidence. When you are pushed into a corner and cannot escape, say that you do not believe.

Don't believe the hadiths in your sahih books and don't believe in the quranic ayats regarding Aisha and Hafsa.

Whatelse can you do anyway but avoid clear proofs.

You sunnis are nothing but a bunch of brain-washed lot of folks.

Until next time.