Umar and Aisha say that the Qur'an is in-complete

Dear Brothers and Sisters;

Knowing that the Qur’an is the word of Allah (swt), complete and free from error, look at what Sahih Bukhari, Muslim, and other Sunni hadiths say about Umar, Aisha, and the rest of the so called companions.

The authentic hadiths show Umar and Aisha saying that the Qur’an is in-complete (may Allah (swt) save us from such lies). Look and evaluate these sahabas for yourselves based on Sunni authentic hadiths:

The Reporters Of The Incompleteness Of The
Qur’an From The Sunnis Are Numerous

  1. Al-Kulayni was not the only scholar who
    reported the incompleteness of the Qur’an. There
    are many hadith recorders, in the books of Sunni
    scholars, who reported that the Caliph 'Umar,
    'A’ishah, and a number of the companions of the
    Prophet said that the Qur’an is incomplete.

The Sahih Of Al-Bukhari

Al-Bukhari recorded in his Sahih (authentic), part
eight, pages 209-210, that Ibn 'Abbas reported that
'Umar bin al-Khattab said in a discourse which he
delivered during the last year of his caliphate:

   "Certainly Allah sent Muhammad with
   the truth, and revealed to him the Book.
   One of the revelations which came to
   him was the verse of stoning. We read it
   and understood it.

   "The Messenger of God stoned and we
   stoned after him. I am concerned that if
   time goes on, someone may say, 'By
   God, we do not find the verse of stoning
   in the Book of God;' thus, the Muslims
   will deviate by neglecting a
   commandment the Almighty revealed.

   "Stoning is in the Book of God. It is the
   right punishment for a person who
   commits adultery if the required
   witnesses are available, or there was
   pregnancy without marriage or adultery
   is admitted."

   Again, we used to read in the what we
   found in the Book of God:

   "Do not deny the fatherhood of your
   fathers in contempt because it is
   disbelief on your part to be ashamed of
   the fatherhood of your fathers."

Similar reports were recorded by Imam Ahmad in
part one of his Musnad (in the Musnad of 'Umar
under the caption of the Hadith al-Saqifah, pages
47 and 55). Ibn Hisham recorded similar things in
his Seerah of the Prophet. part 2, page 658
(second printing, 1955).

Sahih (Authentic) Of Muslim

Muslim in the seventh part of his Sahih
(commentary of al-Nawawi) in the Book of
al-Zakah, about the virtue of being satisfied with
whatever God gives and about urging people to
have that virtue, pages 139-140, reported that Abu
al-Aswad reported that his father said:

   " Abu Musa al-Ash'ari invited the Qur'an
   readers of Basra. Three hundred readers
   responded to his invitation. He told
   them: You are the readers and the choice
   of the people of Basra. Recite the Qur'an
   and do not neglect it. Otherwise, a long
   time may elapse and your hearts will be
   hardened as the hearts of those who
   came before you were hardened.

   " 'We used to read a chapter from the
   Qur'an similar to Bara'ah in length and
   seriousness, but I forgot it. I can
   remember from that chapter only the
   following words:

   " 'Should a son of Adam own two
   valleys full of wealth, he would seek a
   third valley, and nothing would fill Ibn
   Adam's abdomen but the soil.

   " 'We used to read a chapter similar to
   Musabbihat and I forgot it. I only
   remember out of it the following:

   " 'Oh you who believe, why do you say
   what you do not do? Thus a testimony
   will be written on your necks and you
   will be questioned about it on the Day of
   Judgment.' "

It is obvious that these words which Abu Musa
mentioned are not from the Qur’an, nor are they
similar to any of the words of God in the Qur’an. It
is amazing that Abu Musa claims that two surahs
from the Qur’an are missing, one of them similar to
Bara’ah (the chapter of Bara’ah contains 130
verses).

'A’ishah

Muslim also reported in the Book of al-Rida’ah
(Book of Nursing), part 10, page 29, that 'A’ishah
said the following:

   "There was in what was revealed in the
   Qur'an that ten times of nursing known
   with certainty makes the nursing woman
   a mother of a nursed child. This number
   of nursings would make the woman
   'haram' (forbidden) to the child. The this
   verse was replaced by 'five known
   nursings' to make the woman forbidden
   to the child. The Prophet died while
   these words were recorded and read in
   the Qur'an."

'Umar Said Chapter 33 Is Incomplete

Al-Muttaqi 'Ali bin Husam al-Din in his book
“Mukhtasar Kanz al-'Ummal” printed on the margin
of Imam Ahmad’s Musnad, part two, page 2, in his
hadith about chapter 33, said that Ibn Mardawayh
reported that Hudhayfah said:

'Umar said to me ‘How many verses are contained
in the chapter of al-Ahzab?’ I said, ‘72 or 73
verses.’ He said it was almost as long as the chapter
of the Cow, which contains 287 verses, and in it
there was the verse of stoning.

Mustadrak Al-Sahihayn

Al-Hakim al-Nisaburi in his book al-Mustadrak in
the book of commentary on the Qur’an, part two,
page 224, reported that Ubay bin Ka’b (whom the
Prophet called the leader of al-Ansar), said that the
Messenger of God said to him:

   "Certainly the Almighty commanded me
   to read the Qur'an in front of you, and
   he read 'The unbelievers from the people
   of the Book and the pagans will not
   change their way until they see the
   evidence. Those who disbelieve among
   the people of the scripture and idolaters
   could not change until the clear proof
   came unto them. A Messenger from
   Allah, reading purified pages ...' "

And of the very excellent part of it “Should Ibn
Adam ask for a valley full of wealth and I grant it to
him, he would ask for another valley. And if I grant
him that, he would ask for a third valley. Nothing
would fill the abdomen of Ibn Adam except the
soil. God accepts the repentance of anyone who
repents. The religion in the eyes of God is the
Hanafiyah (Islam) rather than Yahudiyyah (Judaism)
or Nasraniyyah (Christianity). Whoever does good,
his goodness will not be denied.”

Al-Hakim said:

   "This is an authentic hadith but the two
   shaykhs (al-Bukhari and Muslim) did not
   record it. Al-Dhahabi also considered it
   authentic in his commentary (on
   al-Mustadrak)."

Al-Hakim reported also that Ubay Ibn Kabb used
to read:

   "Those who disbelieved had set up in
   their hearts the zealotry of the age of
   ignorance; and if you had had a similar
   zealotry, the Sacred Mosque would have
   been corrupted, and God brought down
   His peace of reassurance upon His
   Messenger."

When this reading was conveyed to 'Umar, he
became very angry with Ubay. He sent for him
while he was treating his she-camel with tar. He also
invited other companions, including Zayd Ibn
Thabit. Ubay came to him. 'Umar asked: “Who
among you would read the chapter of al-Fatah
(victory)? Zayd Ibn Thabit read the chapter the way
we read it now. 'Umar spoke to Ubay angrily. Ubay
said ‘Shall I speak?’ 'Umar said ‘Speak out.’ Ubay
said ‘You know that I used to enter the house of the
Prophet, and he used to teach me the reading of the
Qur’an while you and others were by the door.’”

   "If you want me to teach people the way
   the Prophet taught me, I will teach them;
   otherwise, I will not teach them one letter
   ever."

'Umar said to him: “Continue teaching people how
to read.”

Al-Hakim said this is authentic according to the
standards of the two shaykhs (al-Bukhari and
Muslim). However, they did not report it.

Al-Dhahabi also considered it authentic in his
Commentary on al-Mustadrak, part two, pages
225-226.

If we take the report of Ibn Mardawayh which
Hudhayfah attributed to 'Umar in which he said that
the chapter of al-Ahzab, which contained 72 verses,
was as long as the chapter of the Cow (which
contained 287) and take the report of Abu Musa
which says that a chapter equal in length to the
chapter of Bara’ah (which contains 130 verses) was
deleted from the Qur’an, then the deletion in the
Qur’an according to these reports would be about
345 verses.

If this is true, what would be the difference between
the deletion according to these reports and the
report which is attributed to al-Kulayni that claims a
deletion of 600 verses?

Furthermore, suppose that al-Kulayni had recorded
in his book al-Kafi that some of the Qur’anic verses
were deleted. Why should all the Shi’ites be
accused of the belief in the incompleteness of the
Qur’an? Kulayni is not an Imam of the Shi’ites, and
the Shi’ites are not his followers.

Al-Kulayni was no more than a hadith recorder. If a
scholar like him makes a mistake, why should we
attribute that mistake to the millions of Shi’ites who
are not even his followers?

If such an accusation is permissible, why should
we not accuse all the Sunnis of the belief in the
incompleteness of the Qur’an because they all are
followers of 'Umar who was quoted by al-Bukhari,
Muslim, Imam Ahmad, and Ibn Mardawayh to have
said that the Qur’an was incomplete, and that more
than 200 Qur’anic verses were deleted?

Why should the Caliph 'Umar, 'A’ishah, Abu Musa,
and Ubay Ibn Ka’b not be accused of the same
thing because all of them stated the incompleteness
of the Qur’an?

Accusing Muslims of Kufr or deviation is
abhorable to God. We have been commanded by
the Qur’an and the Prophet to consider anyone who
declares that there is no God but Allah and that
Muhammad is the Messenger of God to be a
Muslim. al-Bukhari reported that 'Abdullah Ibn
'Umar reported that the Messenger of God said:

   "When a person calls his Muslim brother
   a Kafir, one of the two would carry the
   sin."

We believe that the Qur’an as it is now is the entire
Qur’an without addition, subtraction, or change.

It is the Qur’an which no falsehood from the era of
pre-revelation or post-revelation entered it. It is a
revelation from the Mighty, the Praised.

Allah promised that He will protect the Qur’an. He
said “Certainly We revealed the Reminder (the Holy
Qur’an), and certainly We shall preserve it.” (ch.
15, v. 9)

It is the Qur’an through which the Messenger and
the Members of his House commanded us to test
the authenticity of every hadith, and accept the
hadith which agrees with the Qur’an and reject the
hadith that disagrees with it.

We believe that whoever says that the Qur’an is
incomplete, or was added to, or changed, is
completely wrong. What was reported on this
subject from Caliph 'Umar, Abu Musa, Ubay Ibn
Ka’b, al-Bukhari, Imam Ahmad, Muslim, al-Hakim,
and al-Kulayni is completely rejected and absolutely
unacceptable.

We certainly reject all of these reports, but we will
not pass any judgment on any of the above
mentioned reporters. Passing judgment belongs
only to Allah.

It is hoped that what was offered on this subject is
sufficient for those who try to find the truth, that
the Shi’ite Muslims are true believers deserving
respect from their Sunni brothers. It is unbecoming
of those who seek the truth to accuse others of a
sin of which they are entirely innocent, especially
when the accusers have committed worse than that
of which they accuse others.

Finally, I would like to say that al-Kulayni’s report
concerning the incompleteness of the Qur’an does
not indicate that he believed in what he recorded.
al-Bukhari, Muslim, Imam Ahmad, and al-Hakim
have reported that 'Umar, 'A’ishah, and a number of
companions stated that the Qur’an is incomplete.
Yet we do not say that these hadith recorders
believed in what they recorded.

I am inclined to believe that al-Kulayni did not
subscribe to what he reported because he
mentioned in his book al-Kafi that all hadiths
should be tested by the Book of God (the Qur’an).
Whatever agrees with the Qur’an should be
accepted, and whatever disagrees with the Qur’an
should be rejected.

Al-Kulayni mentioned in his introduction to his
book the following:

   "Brother, may God lead you to the right
   road. You ought to know that it is
   impossible for anyone to distinguish the
   truth from the untruth when Muslim
   scholars disagree upon statements
   attributed to the Imams. There is only
   one way to separate the true from the
   untrue reports, through the standard
   which was declared by the Imam:

   "'Test the various reports by the Book of
   God; whatever agrees with it take it,
   whatever disagrees with it reject it.

   "'Take what is agreed upon (by
   scholars). Certainly the universally
   accepted should not be doubted. '"

These words indicate that al-Kulayni believed that
the Book of God is the Qur’an which we read;
otherwise, how can we test the various reports
through the Book of God?

At the same time, these words indicate that the
reports which indicated the incompleteness of the
Qur’an should be rejected because they are in
disagreement with the Book of God, which
declares:

   "Certainly We (the Almighty) have
   revealed the Reminder (the Qur'an), and
   We shall preserve it."

The Imam said:

   "Take the agreed upon, for the agreed
   upon by the Islamic scholars should not
   be doubted."

And we know that the Book of God is the one on
which all the Islamic scholars agree.

who cares? the say a lot of shit.

Take care and mention names of Hazrat Umar and Hazrat Ayesha with respect. Prophet Muhammad and Imam Ali respected those. At least follow Hazrat Ali in this regard.

[quote]
Originally posted by 2PaK:
who cares? the say a lot of shit.
[/quote]

i am dead sure u dont but plz atleast be considerate enuff for ppl who do.. get it !!

Well said, AllShah. Keep up the debate.

Degas;

Take the blind fold off your eyes and READ WHAT YOUR SAHIHS SAY. If there is anyone insulting Aisha, Umar, Abu Baker, and the rest of your so called sahabahs, then blame it on your Sahih authors, Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi.

Amazing that when you read the true characteristics of these sham campanions, you automatically come to the conclusion that one is insulting them.

Just goes to show the virtues of their deeds and the lack of ignorance of the sunni community on their own sahih books.

For the sake of Allah (swt) and his holy prophet (pbuh), read once again what I have posted above as well as the post titled "Not all Sahabahs were righteous" and judge for yourselves.

In the end, there is no coersion in belief. Everyone must draw their own conclusions.

Wa Salam.

Bismillah,
Reading Our own Sahihs I have presented some Hadis's under the topic "Not All Sahabas Were Righteous". The Hadis There Have been taken from Sahih Bukhari. Please Go and read them and stop accusing The Sahabas, Specially Hazrat Ayesha(RA) Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) and Hazrat Umar(RA).
I request everyone to go read the Hadis quoted in the thread "Not All...."

Allah Hafiz

[This message has been edited by Acha Bacha (edited August 09, 2000).]

A11shah,
<>

What do u mean by "YOUR SAHIHS"? I thank God that I was never trapped by any of the narrow views of Islam as u seemed to have developed. If we accept your views Islam would be left with a minority religion and that wasnt intended by God. Muslims are not as stupid as u suppose them to be. People think but u seem to follow a fantacy land. Islam is very straight forward religion and thats its beauty. Dont try to mystify it.
I believe in whatever happened after Prophets death relates to simple wordly affairs. If someone made mistakes that were human errors that they might had repented. If Sahabas had some differences among them it was natural human behavoir.
All u do is to point at some minor everyday mistakes and blow them and regard everything thing they did for Islam as nothing.
Think again may be wrong one part in million against some sahaba from your wordly sources, what will happen to u on day of judgement. Allah is there to do justice. Dont make claims that one day u have to pay against.
I have read Islamic history from unbiased sources not from any shia or sunni biased background. In my family there r many shias. My bhabhi is shia many of my close friends and I have no bias against anybody but what irritates me is someone trying to put his faith and regards everone else as fool. Everyone can easily put ahadis and events out of context and dont consider events that happened after that. Whatever I have read till now I firmly believe that Hazrat Abu Bkr, Umar ,Usman,Ali dis was best for Islam. It was ahrd time and they stood by Prophet in really tiring times. they were not prphets but tried to follow him at their best. If they were not able to inintentionlly God would judge them. They sacrificed everything for God and we should follow Prophet in their spirit.

Brothers/sisters;

Besides getting emotional and accusing me of insulting your “great sahabahs”, I am most interested in your thoughts on the ACTUAL WORDS OF UMAR and Aisha clearly stating again in YOUR SAHIH BUKHARI which YOU SAY IS AUTHENTIC, that the Quran is incomplete.

Lets discuss the issue

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Wa Salam

Assalam-Alaikum,

A1shah: Are you a scholar?

You are imperfect, like the rest of us. How can you make claims about the Sahabas and condemn them - of which only Allah knows the truth?

Is Allah not the all-knower?

I am impressed with your cutting and pasting of hadith.. even I can do that, and I admit to not knowing as much as I should.

Can we have some quotes from Quran to back up your claims as well? This is the undisputed word of Allah.. right?.

Hadith are comments from the companians. If you can prove something by the QURAN and THEN hadith, then maybe you'll have a point.

Jazakallah