UK Minister's comments on in-breeding amongst UK Muslims

I recall a few weeks ago there was a discussion here about in-breeding, 1st cousoin marriages.

Based on recent reports it looks like a much bigger problem amongst UK muslims, if this minister is right (33pct of birth defects! Wow)

Ofcourse Downing St does the expected reprimand for the comments but the muslim community in UK surely would want to understand the danger of such incestual practice?

I-----------------------
Phil Woolas: Could be fired for comments on IslamMinister Phil Woolas was rebuked by Downing Street yesterday for warning that British Pakistanis are fuelling rates of birth defects by marrying their cousins. The Environment Minister faced calls to resign by some Muslim leaders after he said marriage of blood relations was the “elephant in the room”.However, according to Gordon Brown’s spokesman, the issue was not one for ministers to comment on. Instead, he said, it should be addressed by members of the local community and scientific experts.The Prime Minister’s spokesman said Mr Woolas, MP for Oldham East and Saddleworth, had been speaking in his capacity as a constituency MP.“The Government’s position is we believe these matters are best addressed locally, by local members of the community as well as by professional healthcare advisers,” he added."This is a scientific debate. It is really for scientific experts to comment on."Mr Woolas insisted that he had a duty to raise the subject of cousin marriage - which is legal in the UK - based on cultural and not religious grounds.He was backed by fellow Labour MP Ann Cryer, who represents Keighley, West Yorkshire.She warned that parts of the Pakistani community are in denial about soaring rates of genetic defects among children born to first-cousin marriages.Mrs Cryer said as many as eight out of ten transcontinental marriages in Bradford were between cousins and could have “tragic” impacts.She first raised the issue more than two years ago after research showed British Pakistanis were 13 times more likely to have children with recessive disorders than the general population.On Radio 4’s Today programme yesterday, she said: "The vast majority of marriages in the Muslim community in Bradford, 80 per cent, are transcontinental."The vast majority of those are to cousins. Many of those do result in either infant mortality or in recessive disorders."Asked if the problem was recognised in the British Pakistani community, she said: "They are in denial. But I am hoping that now we have broken the silence, leaders will start to have a debate about it and perhaps even give advice and say ‘Look you can carry on marrying your cousins, but there is a price to pay’."The price to pay is often in either babies being born dead, babies being born very early and babies being born with very severe genetically transmitted disorders."This is a blight on that community, but particularly on specific families."Steve Jones, professor of genetics at University College London, backed the calls to raise public awareness. He said, in general, mortality and disability almost doubled among marriages between cousins.But he warned that the risks should not be overstated, adding: "Let’s bear in mind that families like the Rothschilds married their cousins frequently."In Bradford, the Office of National Statistics says there is an increase of about five or so infant deaths a year because of cousin marriage, particularly among the Asian community there."There are something like 70 infant deaths altogether in Bradford per year, so the effect isn’t that great."He said smoking and drinking alcohol during pregnancy is “as bad if not worse”.Professor Jones added that cousin marriages are quite common in Spain and are still common in Muslim communities around the world.But he said: "Among Hindu communities, quite often you get an uncle-niece marriage - marrying your brother’s daughter."That is even closer inbreeding than cousin marriage, so it is not by any means a uniquely Islamic issue

Re: UK Minister’s comments on in-breeding amongst UK Muslims

Peace Tariq Akhtar

Here is an article to put the above post into context. Birth defect increases in the Muslim communities in the UK are not entirely due to cousin marriages. It is also because Muslims are less likely to abort their children on the basis of minor defects in their embryos. Though this article does not specifically cite Muslims it does present the problem in context. I would also think that Muslim couples are far less likely to have their babies screened for cell disorders, because it is part of our faith to preserve life and to live up to what we are bestowed with.

Re: UK Minister’s comments on in-breeding amongst UK Muslims

Peace again Tariq

Now look at this report:

http://www.ukhr.org/birthdefects/Birth_Defect_Report_2005.pdf

Here it demonstrates that there is an overall increase in birth defects in the whole country. I have selected the areas that are concentrated with Muslims and I have shown how they compare to other regions.

Bristol S/W
Surrey Heath Woking
Newcastle
Kingston
Leeds North East
Burnley
Brent
Luton
North Birmingham
North Braford
Bury
Harrow (Hindu + Muslim)
Rochadale
Hillingdon
Ealing (Sikh/Hindu/Muslim)
Hammersmith (Black/Muslim/Hindu)
Slough
Hounslow
South Manchester
North Manchester
Leicester

All of these areas are scattered over the table of highest birth defects.

All these regional hotspots of Muslims up till Bury in the list I have presented are lower in birth defects than places like Richmond and Twickenham which is middle class white and bustling suburbia.

North & East Cornwall
Dudley South
North Devon
Central Cornwall
West of Cornwall

These places are all isolated regions in the UK with contained genetic pools of white people because of their locations. All of these are lower in birth defects than Richmond & Twickenham and manay of the other cities.

Apart from the very end of the lists we can see that birth defects are truly spread around the country. Also in the top 20 of the most birth defects we have cities such as Oxford and Cambridge that are in it, which are white middle class regions.

Re: UK Minister’s comments on in-breeding amongst UK Muslims

For info:

Re: UK Minister’s comments on in-breeding amongst UK Muslims

This is so sad…why can’t they just pass a law or have the masjids educate the people about the dangers?

I think may be if the find a way to communicate this without making sound like a religion problem, it will bear better results.

“If you go into a paediatric ward in Bradford or Keighley you will find more than half of the kids there are from the Asian community. Since Asians only represent 20 per cent-30 per cent of the population, you can see that they are over represented.
“I have encountered cases of blindness and deafness. There was one poor girl who had to have an oxygen tank on her back and breathe from a hole in the front of her neck.
“The parents were warned they should not have any more children. But when the husband returned again from Pakistan, within months they had another child with exactly the same condition.”
**Research for BBC2’s Newsnight in November 2005 showed British Pakistanis accounted for 3.4 per cent of all births but have 30 per cent of all British children with recessive disorders. **

Re: UK Minister's comments on in-breeding amongst UK Muslims

Psyah,

Surely you are not going to argue against the direct corelation between inbreeding and birth defects.

Unless muslim communities accept the problem exists, how will they change? By ignoring such evidence and since they have exa.mples from the prophet's own family, the mass of mid and low level educated muslims continue falling prey to this practice.

Instead of defending, everyone should preach reform.

2 Likes

Re: UK Minister's comments on in-breeding amongst UK Muslims

Peace Tariq Akhtar

Of course I am not going to argue it ... I have given my case which is that the media are spinning the issue to a proportion that is unfair representation of the reality of the situation ... to summarise.

1) Not all Muslims marry cousins, in my personal experience ... Pakistani people are grouped in the following:

  • ~ 45% first cousin marriages
  • ~ 35% in tribe marriages
  • ~ 20% out of tribe marriages

2) Most birth defects occur when

  • the family already has genetic carrier disorders and are unnoticed until two carriers come together
  • when there are around two or three consecutive generations of cousin marraiges in both partners.

3) In tribe marriages cause just as much problems as cousin marraiges because they follow the same blood lines.

4) Birth defects are growing naturally in all demonination regardless of genetic make-up, this is probably due to modern things, that we are currently unaware of such as EMR, plastics, preservatives, and other environmental factors.

5) Muslims are far less likely to abort defective babies than other groups of people.

I am not arguing against it as you can see ... I am putting in context!

As for reform ...

Well that is not necessary ... Inter-racial Muslim marriages is on the increase, because:

1) Rate of Muslim converting to Islam is high (especially in women)
2) A higher proportion of females are being born to non-Asian families and a higher proportion of boys are prevalent in the Asian families there will come a point where inter-mixing will be a regular practice.