This discussion crept in while discussing thread about the word ‘Maulana’.
I thought I should make another thread on this topic. But let me explain that I would like to stick to the purpose of this thread alone. No slurs and calling names from my side at least.
Here is what was discussed earlier:
I would like to discuss this article, but one point at a time. Otherwise it might become a mess.
The first thing I noted was that the writer of the article accepts that out of the two versions of this hadeeth, the correct one is that which says ‘Quran and Ahle Bait’, while the one which says ‘Quran and Sunnat’ is wrong.
Now who are Ahle Bait and who are not is another debate. But it is encouraging that writer AT LEAST accepts the use of the word Ahle Bait!
Secondly, prophet reminded people about ahlebait so that they would give them respect after his death. But why did he emphasize the ‘Ahlebait’ part three times?
Was it just to emphasize the respect of Ahle Bait? But what is more important? Following the Quran or Respecting Ahle Bait?
I am sure everyone would say ‘following the Quran is more important’.
So if Quran is more important then why did not prophet repeat allegiance to Quran three times? Why repeat the part about Ahle Bait?
Is it that prophet knew how people are going to treat the ahlebait after his demise? Why did he have this idea that people will not respect his AhleBait, especially when the high status of Ahle Bait was even mentioned in Quran?
I really don’t feel like posting it. But you compelled me to do so.
Read It and all your questions have been answered.
I strongly recommend not to start such THREADS whose sole
purpose is to curse Muslims.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
if you wish to start a fight, you will do that. if you genuinely wish to debate and educate and be educated, i doubt this is the forum for it.
[/QUOTE]
By God I don't want to start a fight. I made it clear in the beginning of the thread. I just want to discuss and keep the records straight.
I usually don't talk on these issues, but I think discussing them sometimes would be helpful even to my understanding.
When we discuss we come across objections from different people. We might not have been able to raise these questions on our own. And it is always good to look at the issue from different angles.
I hope I make myself clear now. There is not going to be a fight here. If a fight starts then I will be the first one to walk away, because I hate cussing and calling names.
Ahle Sunnat ahadith books contain both versions of the hadith, one which says 'Sunnah' and one which says 'Ahle Bait'. Clearly, only one of them could be right. Most people say that Prophet used the word 'Sunnah', but the website referred above accepts that Prophet used the word 'Ahle Bait'. It interprets the use of word 'Ahle Bait' some other way.
Now I just want to emphasize that whatever the interpretation, one thing is good. The writer of the article does consider the version which uses 'Sunnah' to be wrong.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
I really don't feel like posting it. But you compelled me to do so.
Read It and all your questions have been answered.
I strongly recommend not to start such THREADS whose sole
purpose is to curse Muslims.
[/QUOTE]
Where did I curse anyone? How did you get this idea? Can you quote the sentence where I cursed?
There is no harm posting that thread. Don't worry. There is no reason for me to be agitated. I've been reading such threads all my life. In fact, this thread is nothing as compared to what some people say.
I would have surely liked to reply to this thread, but the problem is that I don't find answers to the questions I asked above. May be I overlooked. Could you tell where does this thread answer the above questions?
I said in the beginning that we need to discuss one thing at a time. Let's do just that. The website you quoted talks of lot of issues, and it is not wise to talk about them simultaneously.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by 1010: *
So if Quran is more important then why did not prophet repeat allegiance to Quran three times? Why repeat the part about Ahle Bait?
Is it that prophet knew how people are going to treat the ahlebait after his demise? Why did he have this idea that people will not respect his AhleBait, especially when the high status of Ahle Bait was even mentioned in Quran?
[/QUOTE]
I guess he had emphasized the part about Quran throughout his life. At this occassion he wanted to emphasize ahle bait. I doubt that he said that his family was more importantthan the word of God.
The next question that you have is whether the prophet knew what would happen in the future, and thus was giving some importanty advise to his followers. That could be the case.
Please read the link that I have given again. your question(S) have
been answered very clearly. Do not confuse this Hadith with
Prophets(May peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) last sermon.
The reason for the HADITH is given. Somebody was not happy with the distribution of Hazrat Ali(RA) so a complaint was made to Rasool Allah(SWT).
He(SAW) than addressed people. This hadith not about passing the TORCH of Islam to Ahl-e-Bait.
doesnt say anything about inni tarikun lakum saqalain..(i leave behind two things, the Quran and..)
im writing the arabic meanings (as i know them) in the hope that that might slip past the goalie.
you might rationalise the first as something exhorting people not to quarrel with Ali over distribution of wealth. i dont see how that applies to the second.
and i'd edit the link to "khum.htm" and not "hum.htm". your second page talks about rafidis and how they are similar to jews.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
your link talks about man kuntu mola fa ali mola.
doesnt say anything about inni tarikun lakum saqalain..(i leave behind two things, the Quran and..)
im writing the arabic meanings (as i know them) in the hope that that might slip past the goalie.
you might rationalise the first as something exhorting people not to quarrel with Ali over distribution of wealth. i dont see how that applies to the second.
and i'd edit the link to "khum.htm" and not "hum.htm". your second page talks about rafidis and how they are similar to jews.
[/QUOTE]
That's the reason that I reluctantly posted this address.
Its not just answer to one question. Its answer to all your
questions. That's the way it is. Take it or leave it.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
your link talks about man kuntu mola fa ali mola.
doesnt say anything about inni tarikun lakum saqalain..(i leave behind two things, the Quran and..)
im writing the arabic meanings (as i know them) in the hope that that might slip past the goalie.
you might rationalise the first as something exhorting people not to quarrel with Ali over distribution of wealth. i dont see how that applies to the second.
and i'd edit the link to "khum.htm" and not "hum.htm". your second page talks about rafidis and how they are similar to jews.
[/QUOTE]
Probably your next question will be Why Muslims don't celebrate
3 EIDS. Eid Ghadeer.
Okay. This is starting to get to me. Not the fact that are argument is bull, which is fine by itself. But the fact that you have such attitude sprouting nonsense.
You quote me saying:
Your links talk about A
We're talking about B
This thread is not about A, its about B. Therefore your link is irrelevant to the matter at hand.
You apparently concede as much when you say
[QUOTE]
That's the reason that I reluctantly posted this address.
[/QUOTE]
But you effing go one to say this gem:
[QUOTE]
Its not just answer to one question. Its answer to all your
questions. That's the way it is. Take it or leave it.
take care
[/QUOTE]
So two completely unrelated questions. You think arguably answering one answers the other?
Furthermore, you assume that Im the one asking the question. Im not. If you must demonstrate how ****ing ignorant you are, quote someone else. Not me.
If you dont have answers dont offer them. The whole world isnt waiting for you to log in and send these precious words of yours through the pipe. I know, I know, its tempting to think that.
Its better to tuck your tail between your legs and toddle off than churn off this pointless, obnoxious drivel you normally hand out.
This thread proves, once again, why sectarian discussions are off-limits for Religion Forum. Any such attempts in future will not only result in the thread being closed, but those initiating such discussions may be awarded warning points. Pls be very careful. All such topics should be discussed elsewhere as GUPSHUP has no place for those starting or participating in sectarian tussles.