[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
degas if someone kills my shias...if someone encourages others to kill my shias..then they can just go to hell..i dont give a ****..read the post by ravage again..i don't see shia bombing sunni mosques..you guys are crazy and make no sense
[/QUOTE]
would have probably sounded better if you had said muslims instead of shias, but oh well :)
Anyways, what were these muftis like, In this thread i have read that they were not into the sectarian hatred thing, and someone alluding that maybe they were.
so were they or were they not?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
would have probably sounded better if you had said muslims instead of shias, but oh well :)
[/QUOTE]
yup..but shias have been the only humans getting killed in pak
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
yup..but shias have been the only humans getting killed in pak
[/QUOTE]
What is your definition of 'humans' now? The rest are dangar?
Well, I haven't come across any news item that states that they were invloved in sectarian violence or for that matter invloved in inciting the faithful to go after the people belonging to the other sect. However, I believe they were pro-Taliban ulema...
Maybe someone else can shed some light.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
What is your definition of 'humans' now? The rest are dangar?
[/QUOTE]
Come on Faisal, the 2 imams and the 40 people killled in Multan were vicious animals and deserved to be killed for inciting religious hatred against a group that cant do no wrong. :)
Well this is the view being propogated by some 'humans' here.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Minerva: *
..... However, I believe they were pro-Taliban [MAToos]...
[/QUOTE]
Yeap that is true. Unfortunately!
Pakistanis need to understand that fellow Muslim Countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia are contributing to the fasad (anarchy) in the country. Money and idelogical support from both of these sources flow into the coffers and half empty brains of their PiThoos in Pakistan.
The issue of random killing won't stop as long Pakistanis are willing to look at this purely from religious point of view. Saudi and Irani PiThoos don't give a hoot as to what is good for Pakistan. They have bought into this namak-haram ideology of going straight to Jannat as soon as they put on the suicide belt. That's where their religion ends and the game of geo-strategic influence starts.
In that game Pakistanis are the weakest link after Afghanistan. Iran wants to create chaos in Pakistan to make sure trade routes from CIS states remain blocked. Saudi Sheikhs know that peace in Pak and Afghanistan means CIS states would directly compete for the oil exports.
OBL simply served his Saudi masters by creating anarchy in Afghanistan. Now that Americans are on the ground, the same namak-harams are destroying Pushtoon Areas of Pakistan. Pushtoons who badly need development in their areas can't stop abductions of engineers.
Pushtoons must understand that the objectives of both Iran and Saudi is to make sure their areas become the next Kabul. These MAToo Pithoos will turn Peshawar, Bannu, and Kohat into the land of one-eyed Mullah. We all know that will result in the Kabul-like bombed out buildings all over Pushtoon areas.
Nothing will please these MAToos more that to see the shattered lives of Pushtoons, destroyed business, murder, and mayhem.
Karachi is the target because it is the major port. OBL wants to attack Karachi just like he attacked the other famous port city. The purpose is to ultimately destroy businesses and thus fulfilling the desires of Al-Zaya-hiri (Al the wasted one).
Down with MAToo PiThoos.
Both men were associates of Mufti Shamzai and had close links to Jaish-e-Mohammed.
Even though JeM focused on Kashmir, it was virutally created at the Binori Madrassa thanks to Shamzai's blessings. Shamzai also ensured that SSP volunteers joined JeM in large numbers so that it can get immediate "credibility." This was all circa 2000 in February and March.
Since then fighers have moved in between SSP/LeJ and JeM. The recently killed thug Farooqi was a JeM big man even though he started off as an SSP "volunteer."
Clearly, whatever group killed the two clerics saw them as part of the anti-Shia Binori ulema.
true talvar. what a lot of people dont realise that this was not the killing of two random sunnis, they were specific people in positions of influence at an infamous place i.e. Binnori.
the reason I dont agree with this is that even if they were guilty indirectly or directly for some bomb blasts or doctor-killings is that this is not going to stop or stem anything. it will only escalate the rate of bombings.
Justice is all very well but not at the cost of more, much more injustice.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Talwar: *
Both men were associates of Mufti Shamzai and had close links to Jaish-e-Mohammed......
[/QUOTE]
So what! They should have been dragged through court system. Why do you have to use Bihari style aka Runbeer Sena / Rubree Davi justice? Cmon! you need to live in 21st centure Mr. Talwar.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
So what! They should have been dragged through court system. Why do you have to use Bihari style aka Runbeer Sena / Rubree Davi justice? Cmon! you need to live in 21st centure Mr. Talwar.
[/QUOTE]
Please calm down.
I'm not condoning the murders but just pointed out the relationship between the targeted clerics and the anti-Shia sectarian groups.
Last year you had a spate of attacks on Shias but the leader of the group accused of killing them, Azam Tariq was left untouched despite repeated complaints against him for instigating the attacks. The Pak govt even coddled him and allowed him to be a NA member, didn't they? He was murdered soon afterwards.
Now you have a series of attacks against the minority. Then you have an attack on some clerics who were part of the establishment that preached hate against the Shias. The Multan victims belonged to a banned group which theoretically should not exist but was allowed to operate and conduct rallies openly.
All I'm saying is that in every country, if the government keeps failing to provide justice, hotheads on the victims' side sometimes take matters into their own hands.
All such killings are tragic.
Shabash Talwar..jeetay raho..this indian guy can understand the situation in pakistan better then the pakistanis in pakistan or on this board
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Talwar: *
Both men were associates of Mufti Shamzai and had close links to Jaish-e-Mohammed.
Even though JeM focused on Kashmir, it was virutally created at the Binori Madrassa thanks to Shamzai's blessings. Shamzai also ensured that SSP volunteers joined JeM in large numbers so that it can get immediate "credibility." This was all circa 2000 in February and March.
Since then fighers have moved in between SSP/LeJ and JeM. The recently killed thug Farooqi was a JeM big man even though he started off as an SSP "volunteer."
Clearly, whatever group killed the two clerics saw them as part of the anti-Shia Binori ulema.
[/QUOTE]
Do you have any proof for what you are blabbering here? And Elvis is still alive....make credible statement which you can also prove!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
Shabash Talwar..jeetay raho..this indian guy can understand the situation in pakistan better then the pakistanis in pakistan or on this board
[/QUOTE]
Finally he took your heart, he tried hard, I guess....
I never state anything that I cannot back up.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_29-12-2003_pg3_1
The hijackers and Masood Azhar had belonged to Harkatul Mujahideen which was earlier known as Harkatul Ansar. When the two leaders of Harkatul Mujahideen, Fazlur Rehman Khaleel and Masood Azhar, quarrelled in 2000, Osama bin Laden facilitated the creation of Jaish-e-Muhammad with the help of Mufti Shamzai of the Karachi Banuri Mosque, including the despatch of a dozen new double-cabin trucks for Fazlur Rehman Khaleel.
Jaish was promptly settled in a new training camp. It emerged as the most feisty fighting arm of jihad in Kashmir. It got out of the hand of its ‘handlers’ when it attacked the assembly building in Srinagar. But Jaish and Harkat are all traced back to Sipah Sahaba whose leader Maulana Azam Tariq, before he was killed, was supporting the Jamali government in the National Assembly after being ‘mistakenly’ elected in the 2002 elections.
Let us take one example from the incidents of terrorism that happened in Karachi in 2002 to see how the entire gambit of Deobandi jihad is interlinked and was run by the Taliban/Osama bin Laden combine.
Any more questions 
More:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_31-5-2004_pg7_24
The Darul Uloom Islamia Binori Town mosque in Karachi houses one of the largest religious seminaries in Pakistan. It is perceived to be one of the most influential centres of hardline Deobandi Sunni Muslim ideology in the world. Along with the Akora Khattak seminary — the largest seminary in Pakistan — the Binori Town seminary has imparted doctrinal training to senior Taliban commanders as well as to men like the late Maulana Azam Tariq of the banned Sipah-e-Sahaba who was also killed in an ambush in Islamabad last year.
Since its establishment in 1951, the mosque and its seminary have been at the forefront of religious education to some 3,500 students at one time and now more than 10,000 pupils. Before the 9/11 attacks on the US, most pupils were drawn from Afghanistan and the Pashto-speaking areas of the NWFP, besides from abroad including Africa, the Philippines and Malaysia. Now, only 99 foreign students are taught there, according to a seminary official. It has a large number of smaller affiliated seminaries both within and outside Karachi. In the same month four years ago, another eminent religious scholar affiliated with the same religious school was killed in an ambush. Maulana Yousaf Ludhianvi was gunned down on May 18, 2000 on his way to the International Khatm-e-Nabuwwat offices in Sharifabad.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Talwar: *
I never state anything that I cannot back up.
......
Any more questions
[/QUOTE]
Yes! Many more questions. Ok state how Nehru, Patel cabal destroyed Kashmir. Tell us how Baha-Rat-i governments manipulated its constitution with sole purpose of denying Kashmiris their rights. Then back it up where the rest has come from.
Man! These pipsqueaks from the land of King Lallu have all kinds of analysis just to help Pakistan. That leaves nothing for them to fix their own great state of Bihar.
You are quoting from a Pakistani paper about the history of MAToos. We know it already.
Tell us where was the Baha-Rat-i justice when your commie masters invaded Afghanistan and killed 1 million Afghanis. Oh you won't care I know. Your pals followed the same and burned 2000+ and put 30,000+ in the concentration camps.
You my friend actively colluded with Commies and now tell us how Mullah MAToos got power! The most shameful behavior is shown by these Baha-Rat-is when they come and give Pakistan lecture about peace. Man! Go fix your own house in Bihar and leave us alone. We will InshaAllah fix these MAToo PiThoos.
Go and bring down the Barlin wall being constructed in Kashmir. Go save those innocent Kashmiris being hunted down by the Baha-Rat-i terrorists.
These Lallu Parsads. They never quit showing their Bihari upbringing.
^^
If you want to comment on India related topics, please do so in the World Affairs forum.
But you are wrong when you say:
The fact is that many Pakistanis, even here in Gupistan, have no clue about the origin of jihadi tanzeems or their ties with specific madrassas or ulema and how they tie up with sectarian groups.
Just look at the claims made by some people here.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
what do u mean by "bad elements"..all i am saying is that there is a difference between innocent people and people who preach violance against different sects..some of these fanatics openly claim that its ok to kill the shias..anyways i dont know about these 2 sunni ulemas but i am not happy with this news either..i want to see peace in pakistan but this will just cause more problems
[/QUOTE]
those 2 ulemas were not involved in sectarian fights but u havent condemned and said the attackers are terrorists and they are shaheed are only just "not happy"..
so ur saying there is absolutely no problem with shia side !! the fact is there are people on both sides that preach hatred and violence.. but if we want to ignore our side then there is a problem.. i have seen a lot of shias who preach hatred.. incite sunnies by disrespecting sahaba karams.. and who could forget few yrs back when shias sprayed bullets in mosques when they fighted with sipah-e-sihaba.. in this wave shias also killed many innocent sunnies.. bullets and bombs dont see where they are going to hit..
Truth is we have killers of innocentsi n both sides and unless we condemn all terrorists reagardless of their faith we are encouraging some elements and thats dangerous..
Re: Two Sunni Ulema killed/Another cold blooded murder
Innan lilahe wa inna alihay rajeyoon..
and the list of sunni ulema continues…
Mufti abdus sami..
Moulana yousaf
Moulana shmazi
Moulana habib ullah mukhtar
Moulana abdullah
Moulana azam tariq
are few of the many ulema killed by terrorist..still some ppl believes that sunnis in pakistan are a previlaged community…
the way binori town ulema responded to this shadah is commendable…i personaly witnessd that they stopped many angry youth from doing any unlaw ful demonstartion…
May ALLAH give us strenght to power terrorism patronised by busharraf…