Pashtun (Pakhtun) are also dall khoors
Imdad: Your refrring to the A-10 "Warthogs" alos called the Tank Killer, right ugly looking planes that pack quite a punch. I don't think the US ever allowed the export of the A-10's to other countries? (if they did, to which country ??)
NYAhmadi: We call ourselves Pashtuns or Pakhtuns ( the difference is something to do with local accents), the term Pathan is at best a foreign word at worst it's derogatory. Although Punjabis or Indians of Pashtun descent often refer to themselves as Pathans or Afghans.
Thanks mAd_ScIeNtIsT and Zakk.
To others, please get over your obsession with various "khoors".
Channmahi I hope the following excerpt helps…
By Mufti Taqi Usmani
Q.) The word “Shaheed” has been frequently used in the books, newspapers, and magazines for different types of people. I am sure that this word should have a specific connotation in the Islamic Terminology. I will be grateful if you please explain the true meaning of this word and the categories of persons for whom this term may be applied in Shariah.
A.) In fact “Shaheed”, is a specific term, used in the Holy Quran and Sunnah. It has certainly a specific meaning and one should be careful before applying this term to a person and you should ascertain whether he is really qualified to be called a “Shaheed.”
According to Islamic Jurisprudence, “Shaheed” is of two kinds:
Shaheed in the real sense.
Shaheed in the constructive sense.
Shaheed in the real sense is a Muslim who has been killed during “Jihad” or has been killed by any person unjustly. Such a person has two characteristics different from common people who die on their bed. Firstly, he should be buried without giving him a ritual bath. However, the prayer of the Janazah shall be offered on him and he shall also be given a proper kafin (burial shroud). Secondly, he will deserve a great reward in the Hereafter and it is hoped that Allah Almighty shall forgive his sins and admit him to Jannah. It is also stated in some of the traditions that the body of such a person remains in the grave protected from contamination or dissolution.
As compared to this kind of “Shaheed” a Shaheed in a constructive sense is a person who has been promised by the Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam to get a reward of a Shaheed in the Hereafter but is not taken as Shaheed with regard to the rules of burial. It means that the dead body has to be bathed like a dead body of any other person. ** The Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam has included in this category of Shaheed a large number of persons such as a person who has died in a Plague or who has died in an unexpected accident, like a fire or a traffic accident or who has been drowned in the water or a woman who has died during the delivery of her child etc. **
Allama Jalaluddin Suyuti, a well-known scholar of Islamic disciplines, has collected all the Hadiths relating to this kind of Shaheed and has come to the conclusion that there are thirty categories mentioned by the Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam who can deserve to be called Shaheed in this sense. But in the normal course, the word “Shaheed” is applied only for the first kind. However, it is not prohibited to use the word for a person who falls in any of the categories mentioned in the second kind.
It is evident from the above discussion that the word “Shaheed” can only be used for a Muslim and cannot be applied to a non-Muslim at all. Similarly, the term cannot be used for a person who has been rightly killed as a punishment of his own offence.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zakk: *
Imdad: Your refrring to the A-10 "Warthogs" alos called the Tank Killer, right ugly looking planes that pack quite a punch. I don't think the US ever allowed the export of the A-10's to other countries? (if they did, to which country ??)
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The US is willing to sell A-10s, but no other countries have been willing to buy them. It's a very specialist aircraft, which plays a role that can effectively also be executed by a range of other weapon delivery platforms such as helicopter gunships.
In the 1980s, to combat the risk of soviet tank regiments pouring across from Afghanistan and invading Pakistan, the USA indeed offered to sell the A-10 to Pakistan. Thankfully, General Zia's administration was sufficiently far-sighted to refuse the offer and instead requested to purchase F-16s, which are much more versatile.
In fact, the A-5 was then purchased for the ground attack role vs Soviet invasion. It's a lot less effective as a bomber/ground attack aircraft than the A-10 is, but comes at a fraction of the cost.
Besides which, the Pakistani army knew the futility of attempting to win a conventional war against the USSR and instead used the help offered by the USA to combat the Soviet threat as a cover to purchase a range of US-made weapons that are well suited to fighting India.
Zakk… I will take your word for it. I will never call anyone Pathan again. In Punjab (may be it is due to ignorance more than anything else) people of the Pashtun ethnicity are called Pathans. We even have a town called Pathankout. My apologies.
Naswar-Khor wasn’t meant to be an insult. There's no harm in sniffing Naswar. My both Grandmothers used to sniff Naswar too. They both died (not for sniffing I guess).
Inna Lillah E Wa Inna Ilaieh E Raajioon
"Shaheed ko murda mut kaho. Woh zinda hein magar tum aqal nehien rakhtey."
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Khakan: *
Pashtoon is no word.Its pukhtoon.And "naswar khoor" are more managed nation then "dall khoors"
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How many times have u changed ur nick? Btw, the word used in Afghanistan is still Pashtun, whether you like it or not. Btw. you said Pakistan would break up soon about 6-8 months ago, what went wrong ;)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by NYAhmadi: *
Zakk… I will take your word for it. I will never call anyone Pathan again. In Punjab (may be it is due to ignorance more than anything else) people of the Pashtun ethnicity are called Pathans. We even have a town called Pathankout. My apologies.
[/QUOTE]
NYA, yara it's your S. Punjabi background that is to blame :D We, North Punjabis know the proper terms. In Attock, there are Pakhtuns (Pashtuns)- true followers of Pashtunwali, and Hinkians who call themselves Pathans. It is a long running joke that a true Pakhtun would be insulted by the word "Pathan" while fake Pathans :D say it with pride.
It's been 50+ years non-Pakhtuns should atleast learn the proper name not some Hindu/British term used in a derogatory manner.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
NYA, yara it's your S. Punjabi background that is to blame :D We, North Punjabis know the proper terms. In Attock, there are Pakhtuns (Pashtuns)- true followers of Pashtunwali, and Hinkians who call themselves Pathans. It is a long running joke that a true Pakhtun would be insulted by the word "Pathan" while fake Pathans :D say it with pride.
It's been 50+ years non-Pakhtuns should atleast learn the proper name not some Hindu/British term used in a derogatory manner.
[/QUOTE]
I live in Pindi, where alot of the so called Pakhtun have migrated. They have been called Pathans by alot ppl (not by disrespect) and so they dont get ticked off and have learnt to accept it. However, if you say that to the Pakhtuns living in NWFP, they might have a problem... If they dont like it, we have to accept.
NY: In many areas of Punjab you have areas where Pashtuns settled generations back. Many of the more prominent families of Southern Punjab call themselves Pathans or Afghans. They are in fact Pathan, Afghan Biradri's in some areas. You have to remember Pashtuns ruled Southern Punjab till early 19th Century. In India you have something similar a rough estimate there are 2 million Indians who claim to be "Pathans".
Some used to bring their families back to Peshawar to marry with local pashtuns to keep some link with their language and culture. For outsiders the term "Pathans' has become synonymous with all pashtuns, but like RajpurFury said, the general rule is that the difference is the ability to speak the language. And thanks to the Taliban, you have George Dubya Bush and Tony Blair calling us Pashtuns;)
Introduction
http://www.piads.com.pk/users/piads/pafa5.html
The A-5C is a single-seat, twin-engined, close air support and ground-attack strike fighter-bomber. The A-5Cs of the PAF have been employed exclusively in the ground attack role. Pakistan obtained 52 A-5Cs in 1983 which equip No. 16 and No. 26 Squadrons of the PAF.
Designed to meet a 1950s requirement for a supersonic attack aircraft, the Qianjiji-5 (Attack aircraft 5) first flew on 4 June 1965. The Q-5 (A-5 for export) is a derivative of the Shenyang F-6 (MiG-19) aircraft and was first designed in China in August 1958 at the Shenyang facility. Responsibility was later assigned to the Nanchang Aircraft Manufacturing Corp. (NAMC) facility. The prototype programme was cancelled in 1961, but kept alive by small team of Chinese aeronautical engineers and defence personnel. It resumed officially in 1963. The first flight of the Q-5 took place on 4 June 1965. The preliminary design certificate was awarded and the pre-production batch was authorized in late 1965. Development of the Q-5 led to the Q-5I. A major change involved deletion of the bomb bay in favour of more fuel, thus extending the aircraft’s range. Strengthened landing gear and an extra pair of underfuselage hardpoints were fitted, and some Navy aircraft were fitted with Doppler radar compatible with their role as sea-skimming delivery platforms for the C-801 Anti-ship Missiles (AshMs) and underfuselage torpedoes. Further enhancement of the Q-5I’s offensive capabilities, in the form of an extra pair of underwing hardpoints and a new gun/bomb-sighting system, led in the mid-1980s to the Q-5IA; the addition of RWR resulted in the Q-5II.
The aircraft was further modified, leading to the flight testing of two further modified prototypes from October 1969. The series production-run was approved at end of 1969 and deliveries began to take place in 1970. The A5-C (Q-5C) is the improved Q5-I 1976 version of the aircraft. It was flight tested in late 1980 and certified for production on 20 October 1981.
The Q-5IA accounted for the type’s first export success, namely 40 for North Korea. Keen to win further orders, Nanchang offered the Q-5IA for export as the A-5C (Q-5III). Incorporating 32 modifications of the Q-5 plus upgraded avionics and an added AIM-9 AAM capability, the A-5C was ordered by Pakistan (52 aircraft) and Bangladesh (20 aircraft). Development of the Q-5II in co-operation with Alenia of Italy subsequently produced the all-weather A-5M. Myanmar has ordered 24 such aircraft.
Mission
The A-5C Fantan is deployed by the PAF as a close air support and ground attack aircraft. It also has the capability for air-to-air combat if need be. The A-5C has been modified to meet the PAF requirements in the special role of close air support as well as its primary role, ground-attack and deep penetration strike. The PAF A-5Cs have been modified to carry a single 5-20 kT nuclear bomb under the centreline along with two external wing mounted fuel drop tanks. In the event of nuclear attack, the PAF A-5Cs will be used primarily to deliver battlefield nuclear bombs over advancing enemy armoured columns. They will also be used for conventional as well as nuclear attack on enemy air bases, missile launch sites and strategic installations located within 1,000 km from the Pakistani border with air defence escort provided by PAF F-7MP fighter interceptors.
Features
The A-5C is powered by two Shenyang WP6 turbojets, each rated at 25.50 kN dry and 31.87 kN with afterburning, mounted side by side in the rear of the fuselage. Armament includes one internal 23mm cannon with 100 rounds in each wingroot; ten attachment points normally for external stores; two pairs in tandem under centre of fuselage, and three under each wing; fuselage stations can each carry a 250 kg bomb; inboard wing stations can carry 6kg or 25 lb practice bombs; outboard wing stations can each be occupied by a 400 litre drop tank or by air-to-air missiles such as PL-2, Pl-2b, Pl-7, AIM-9 Sidewinder and R550 Magic. The A-5C is an all-weather interceptor with provisions for a search-tracking radar in the nose. There is now increased an inlet diameter and enlarged forward fuselage. Thus, more fuel can be carried in the proportionally waisted mid-fuselage. There are also space provisions for additional updated avionics.
Another improved version Q5-K had been tested with French avionics, the programme was cancelled in 1989. It is equipped with a ranging radar and can carry two torpedoes or two YJ-8 sea-skimming AshMs (C-801, range 10-50km at Mach 0.9) for anti-ship mission. The latest model in service with AF may be equipped with HUD, ballistic computer, ECM pod, ALR-1 laser range finder/designator (to deliver newly developed LGBs) and Russia is also offering its Phazotron Komar PD radar to upgrade the Q-5.
Basic Specifications
Primary Function: Ground-attack strike aircraft.
Manufacturer: NAMC (China)
Power Plant: Two Shenyang Wopen-6 (WP6) turbojet engines with afterburners.
Thrust: 31.87 kn. (7,165 lb. st)
Length: 53 feet, 4 inches (16.25 meters)
Height: 14 feet, 10 inches (4.52 meters)
Wingspan: 31 feet, 10 inches (9.70 meters)
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 26,455 lbs. (12,000 kgs); Empty: 6,494 kg (14,317 lb)
Speed: 1,190 km/h (740 mph) or Mach 1.12 at 36,000 feet (11,000 metres)
Ceiling: 52,000 feet (15,850 meters); max rate of climb at 5000 m (16,400 ft) 4980-6180 m (16,340-20,275 ft)/min.
Range: 1,243 miles (2,000 km)
Armament: Two 23 mm internal cannons. Ten hardpoints points for carrying up to 2,000 kg (4,410 lb) of bombs (250 to 1000 kg bombs), Mk 82 or Snakeye, French Durandal, air-to-air missiles such as Chinese PL-2, PL-2B, PL-7, AIM-9 Sidewinder and Matra R.550, Magic, auxiliary fuel tanks. C-801 AshMs. Capable of carrying a single 5-20 kT nuclear bomb.
Crew: One
PAF Inventory: 51(current); 60 (original)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
I live in Pindi, where alot of the so called Pakhtun have migrated. They have been called Pathans by alot ppl (not by disrespect) and so they dont get ticked off and have learnt to accept it. However, if you say that to the Pakhtuns living in NWFP, they might have a problem... If they dont like it, we have to accept.
[/QUOTE]
Spock, yara are those "Pakhtuns" Pakhto speaking? I am asking because N. Punjab has always had a large population of Hazros who sometimes claim to be "Pathan." They may have learned to accept it but I will tell you the hostility will be there, however latent it might be. I think it's only fair to call them what THEY want to be called rather than using an erronous term. If we call accept Montgomery as Sahiwal, Lyallpur as Faislabad, it is high time that we drop the Anglo-Indian term of "Pathan," they and us are all Pakistanis now, lets get with the realities.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
Spock, yara are those "Pakhtuns" Pakhto speaking? I am asking because N. Punjab has always had a large population of Hazros who sometimes claim to be "Pathan." They may have learned to accept it but I will tell you the hostility will be there, however latent it might be. I think it's only fair to call them what THEY want to be called rather than using an erronous term. If we call accept Montgomery as Sahiwal, Lyallpur as Faislabad, it is high time that we drop the Anglo-Indian term of "Pathan," they and us are all Pakistanis now, lets get with the realities.
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Rajput, well alot of them living in cities where they are minorities have no major problems with that. Consider, for example Rawalpindi. There are alot of them working over here, yet they dont find that term deragatory, even though others think it is.
The only thing that ticks them off is 'khocha', but if you know them real well, you can joke around with them using that too.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
Rajput, well alot of them living in cities where they are minorities have no major problems with that. Consider, for example Rawalpindi. There are alot of them working over here, yet they dont find that term deragatory, even though others think it is.
The only thing that ticks them off is 'khocha', but if you know them real well, you can joke around with them using that too.
[/QUOTE]
Got it...thanks for the info.
I dont know who we are trying to beat this year… almost every week an aircraft is falling down…
**Pakistani army helicopter crashes
**
A Pakistani army helicopter has crashed into mountains in the north of the country, killing 13 people.
The M-17 helicopter was on a routine flight in the Astore region, about 260 kilometres (160 miles) from the capital, Islamabad, when it went down, military officials said.
A spokesman for the armed forces, Saulat Raza, said there were no survivors amongst the crew, which included some mid-ranking officers.
“An inquiry has been ordered to ascertain the cause of the accident,” he said.
Helicopters are frequently used in the region as roads are often inaccessible.
In February the commander of Pakistan’s air force, Air Chief Marshal Mushaf Ali Mir, was killed along with his wife and a number of officials when their helicopter crashed in the north-west of the country.
There are several air force bases in north west of Pakistan which were particularly useful during anti-Soviet operations in the 1980s and also for US-led operations in Afghanistan.
May Allah bless their souls! aameen! 