[quote]
Originally posted by astrosfan:
** And such intolerance is why Muslims carry the worldwide reputation that they do.
[This message has been edited by astrosfan (edited September 26, 2000).]**
[/quote]
---->Astrosofan,if religion was popularity contest then Islamwould be very easy .Intenton of islam was not to make llolypop the every one likes.And the fact that nothing comes from nothing ,so if you want to achieve character,discipline,sucess,hapiness & health you have to work HARD,a notion not REPUTED by the world.
Senior Member
Posts: 170
posted September 26, 2000 10:27 AM
GFQ - please understand that whatever I say from here on out is in the
spirit of debate, and not meant to demean or belittle -
quote:
Originally posted by Girl from Quraysh:
I think belief/faith, is more than an aspect of human nature, i think
having something to believe in is a Need.
I disagree with this statement. I think that if a person were born in a
society that had no idea of God, that such a person would not suddenly
believe in a God simply because of some inherent Need. I believe that a
belief in God satisfies an inherent need for Hope. For example, in our
lives we the "human condition" - frustration with our lives, with the
meaning of our lives, and with the lives of those around us. We "hope"
that we can satisfy these frustrations, and I believe that a belief in
God satisfies such hope.
------>Is not hope<-->faith??
quote:
Originally posted by Girl from Quraysh:
Allah swt has created people distinct from animals, he has blessed us
with a spirit—wherein we has the freedom of our mind and body, and a
moral sense—a conscious if you will--with which to reason.
Again, I disagree with this statement. It assumes that animals have not
been blessed with a spirit, with a freedom of mind and body, and a moral
sense. Because we are unable to communicate with most animals, many
people make these assumptions. However, a deeper study of animal
psychology sees many parallels with humans in terms of community,
intelligence, and even morality. Simply put, we have no idea if your dog
(if you have a dog) prays to God or not. We only assume that he does
not.
---->Only difference anatomically between other mamals the closest animal to us is BRAIN <------->spirit,moral sense,language ,thaught feeling ,volition.------Animals have NO higher brain function to have religous feelings!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Girl from Quraysh:
Hmmm alright atheists. Okay basically, an atheist is someone who denies
the existence of God, so from where I stand I would be able to say—from
my perspective--- someone who believes in the belief of unbelief.
Therefore, you can see that an atheist also needs to possess faith,
atheists cannot deny the existence of Allah swt, with evidence, with
proof, hence their need for faith.
Faith is a belief in something for which you have no proof. The atheist
believes that there is no proof for God, and therefore believes there is
no God. What you have said is that there is proof for God, and the
atheist denies it, so therefore, the atheist believes in his faith,
since there is no proof for his stance. This is somewhat circular logic.
For some, the proof is easy - witness the miracle threads that Humble
posted. For some, proof means much much more than simple signs, books,
and prophets. And for the atheist, such proof simply does not exist. It
does not mean the atheist denies the Truth. It means the atheist needs
more proof of Truth, because converting from unbelief to belief is
harder than simply strengthening belief.
------->Do you see PAIN,HEAT,COLD,but you know it is there.invisible ,intangible,doesn't mean non exisistence
quote:
Originally posted by Girl from Quraysh:
Now here’s an another point, if it is me, a follower of islam, a muslim,
that will end up as the one who is wrong, I will have lost nothing.
Now, this is a tougher one to refute, because it is mostly true - if
Allah exists, you win, if there is no God, you don't lose. If there is
no God, the question then, is, how much of your life have you wasted in
this pursuit of God. How much more time could you have spent teaching
your children, how much more time could you have spent studying and
improving humanity through progress? Or, if there is no God, how much
time have you spent misleading others along a path that they didn't
particularly wish to follow? If there is no God, how moral is it to
try to convert people to a relgious belief?
------>What if there is god,not only she will be right to benefit frombelief BUT BENEFIT FROM GOOD DIRECTIONS SHE FOLLOWED OF GOD <MAKING HER HAPPIER<HEALTHIER <BOTH EMOTIONALLY & PHYSICALLY.
quote:
Originally posted by Girl from Quraysh:
Therefore I believe in humanity, I submit to a way of life, that strives
for the betterment of the individual **and the community; to a religion
that seeks for the unity of humanity. **
These are lofty goals, and I am impressed that you seek them. However,
from where I stand, as an Indian Hindu, the Muslim tradition does not
agree with you.
----> whether muslim traditon agrees with some one is that individuals DESCIsion ,no body licensed you to what forks for whom,
quote:
Originally posted by Girl from Quraysh:
While, if someone who denies the existence of God, an atheist, ends up
wrong in their conviction, they will be the ones who truly lose.
Why? Why does the atheist truly lose? If the atheist is moral, if he has
committed no crimes, if he has helped his fellow man along at all times,
if he has striven for the betterment of himself and the community, why
is he the loser? Truly, is the requirement of a belief in God such a
necessity to reach the "hope" of a good afterlife? It would seem to me
(and this is where you may have to moderate me), that such a belief is
very spiteful, even hateful, of people with different beliefs, who have
had different experiences, and seen different truths.
------>Truth can be only one .I hope you don't doubt it. Otherwise your being diplomatic & being eveythning to evryone which is impossible.Mind you whsat allah will do ,we submit ,is not even known to muslims,so we also don't have rght to make judgement on you.Islam works to make you MORAL as well as spiritual believing holy too.Atheist are trying to reinvent the wheel .which is dogmatic,rebellious &arrogant attitude toward spirituality.We don't condemn you but can't hope for you either!
quote:
Originally posted by Girl from Quraysh:
I'm not sure what you mean by scrutiny. How can hardships be helpful in
testing our faith?--hmmm, alright well what i meant was that every
trial, every hardship gives us an opportunity to strengthen our
iman--our faith, by developing sabr(patience) which is part of imaan.
Here's a verse, umm from surah al imran i think...(its the translation)
Do you think that you will enter Heaven without God testing you (to see)
who will struggle hard from among you, and who will remain patient?
From the outside looking in, such a verse seems to be a way to keep the
masses in line. It's the "mysterious ways" argument - bad things happen
to good people, and God is simply testing them. However, if a person
does not believe that a merciful God could ever create such tests, then
such a verse limits that sort of thought.
----->That is just one effect of belief not the only.At really bad times spirituality may be the only medicins available despite all the logical rational science pomposity.
[This message has been edited by astrosfan (edited September 26, 2000).]
Akif
Moderator
Posts: 716
posted September 26, 2000 10:50 AM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------kes an educated effort to study it.