[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
I dont get this. How is the military's fault for going after murderers and criminals? These people are sheltering Al Qaeda and people who have helped in the killing of muslims. How can you sit here and defend their position?
[/QUOTE]
Exactly. The government has been talking to the tribals for the last couple of years, and implored them though many Jirgas to give up the foreign terrorists (not Afghan jihadis). They have ignored these successive pleas for a peaceful resolution everytime, and all the time our national security has been endangered.
malik if the action in waziristan is prolonged i can assure you the biggest loser will be pakistan, as the action has the potential to spark pashtun nationalism in NWFP and Balochistan as well...
[QUOTE]
If I understand my history correctly, these same tribal "loyalists" were used by the britsh against the freedom fighters/terrorists. The more things change.........
[/QUOTE]
Uncle Imdad here is a little history lesson: There were no Mehsud Tribesman serving as scouts under the Brits. There was one Mehsud Road Construction Battallion raised in 1937 but it didn't do much because most of the british operations were directed against the Mehsuds. As a matter of fact no one can say if the Mehsud road construction battalion existed in reality because there are no records of recruits and thier barracks at Fort Salop were occupied by 6 Rajputana Rifles, 1/2 King Edwards Own Gurkha Rifles and 1/5 Marhata Regiment from 1937 to 47. The Mehsuds joined the militia in droves after independence of Pakistan and the tribe gave the Pakistan army several outstanding officers such as Lt. Gen. Alam Jan Mehsud. Many military historians have commented on this and several other changes in the army. You might want toread Col. Muhammad Khan's Bajang Amad for some anecdotal accounts or Major Muhammad Nawaz Khan's excellent treatsie on the history of the militias entitled Guardians of the Frontier.
Now Imdad sahib do you really know what was the deal with the Fakir of Ipi or did you just type it out because the name came to your head?
[QUOTE]
Much like the haqiqi
[/QUOTE]
What does this mean? There were Haqiqi people in the time of the British?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zaavia: *
malik if the action in waziristan is prolonged i can assure you the biggest loser will be pakistan, as the action has the potential to spark pashtun nationalism in NWFP and Balochistan as well...
[/QUOTE]
Believe me, the action in WANA will come to a satisfactory conclusion to the satisfaction of the FATA tribals and the Pakistani state. The only losers will not just be the foreign terrorists (not Afghan jihadis) but also extremists as a whole in Pakistan. See how deliberately ineffective the MMA "protests" have been? They know the writing is on the walls for their former mentors, and are not prepared to lose their large political bases in Peshawar and Quetta etc for foreign terrorists.
I, also predict there will be a massive and concerted effort on behalf of the central government to develop and rehabilitate the FATA region, which will go a great way to dampen down any lasting resentment.
This is why Pakistan, is not developing!!! We need to give more power to the people and they need to assist the army and government to help root out and distory these ****ers!!
Brother Mufakkar, you are right on this particular point, but who was it that was fighting the tribes in British times? Was it not the frontier force and punjab regiments which comprised of loyalist punjabis and pashtuns? Remember the britsh used native forces against any rebellions. the same case can be made today.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mufakkar: *
Now Imdad sahib do you really know what was the deal with the Fakir of Ipi or did you just type it out because the name came to your head?
[/quote]
I know he fought against Pakistani army, just as he had against British army before. For him, their was no difference between the two.
[quote]
What does this mean? There were Haqiqi people in the time of the British?
[/QUOTE]
No, I meant how ISI used Haqiqi as its agents of terror, so its hands would appear clean. Like Israel used the Christian militias in Lebonan.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by The_Jackal: *
This is why Pakistan, is not developing!!! We need to give more power to the people and they need to assist the army and government to help root out and distory these ***ers!!
[/QUOTE]
Yes, and the problem is that some people only want to think along ethnic lines, which explains half of the people opposing the Wana operation. The other half just hate the military, period and nothing they do will ever be good in their eyes. But in the eyes of our Quaid when warning about the curse of provincialism:-
We are now all Pakistanis--not Baluchis, Pathans, Sindhis, Bengalis, Punjabis and so on--and as Pakistanis we must feet behave and act, and we should be proud to be known as Pakistanis and nothing else
Brother Imdad, the anti tribal operations were done pre-dominantly by Gurkha/Marhatta light infantry (source John Masters in his book Bugles and a Tiger). That was before WWII when muslim conscription in the army was limited to a few "Mohammedan" companies in the Frontier Force regiment. Infact Punjabi muslims were never recruited into the Jatt or Punjab regiments but were part of something called the Punjab Frontier Force Regt. Muslim recruitment began in earnest during World War II. During the war, the details of ops in tribal area are sketchy, but I will look up some books and get back to you. Moreover, the Brits offered up a lot of land and bakhsheesh which our army was not in a position to do. I don't want to speculate, so I will read up on the British miltary conduct in the tribal areas, and get back to you.
[QUOTE]
Brother Mufakkar, you are right on this particular point, but who was it that was fighting the tribes in British times? Was it not the frontier force and punjab regiments which comprised of loyalist punjabis and pashtuns? Remember the britsh used native forces against any rebellions. the same case can be made today.
[/QUOTE]
sory man where was this feeling for us b4, uz never said anything like this b4. now that uz know that we have figured out that uz dont want good for us, uz are trying to bring developments into our territory. we dont want any aid fro any country, wo love the way we live now, we dont want it to be changed.
Nice to see that there are FATA people who think of themselves Pakistani first. These are good people working to make their country better for their people. I salute them.
What will these coward terrorist ever do for FATA? They will be gone and their stupid mission gone with them. Some bravery these terrorist show. Killing innocent people in the name of Islam. If they believe in their own stupid mission, why don't they lineup in front of the enemies army and fight like men?
FATA has no business protecting people like these. They are better than that.
Let me make this clear. I favor a complete elimination of those who are attacking Pak Fauj using all available means.
But once this operation is over, there needs to be an accounting for the role of our army and ISI in this whole mess. They have to be held accountable for their actions. From the Taliban debacle to Kashmiri jihadis, sectarian jahils to these foreign terrorists, everybody was encouraged by our army for one reason or the other and then thrown away. You can throw out trash, but armed terrorists don't generally take rejection kindly. They kill. Those geniuses who created the terrorists need to be tarred and feathered.
Those who start the fire should not get credit for putting it out.
What will these coward terrorist ever do for FATA? They will be gone and their stupid mission gone with them. Some bravery these terrorist show. Killing innocent people in the name of Islam. If they believe in their own stupid mission, why don't they lineup in front of the enemies army and fight like men?
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I have stated that the greatest cowards are those foreigners hiding in FATA, and waging a political/terrorist war against their home countries from our territory. The traitors are those who are protecting these cowards, and putting the lives of their own people in danger, while also killing Pakistani soldiers.
The greatest patriots are tribes like the Mehsud who think about their own people first, and defend the state of Pakistan. All power to them!
More tribals supporting the government and getting the terrorists to accede to the government’s demands.
Militants agree to release Pakistan govt hostages
Militants including al Qaeda fighters under siege by Pakistani forces on the Afghan border have agreed to release 14 government men captured at the start of fighting 12 days ago, a negotiator said on Saturday. The 12 paramilitary soldiers and two officials were captured at the start of a sweep on 400-500 al Qaeda fighters and their tribal allies in Pakistan’s semi-autonomous tribal territories. “We have managed to persuade them to release all the kidnapped people. They will be here some time today or early tomorrow,” said tribal elder Malik Waris Khan Afridi, speaking in the western town of Wana.
Tribal elders have been trying for days to persuade the militants, encircled by a cordon of about 5,000 troops, to release the men and surrender. About 100 people have been killed since the campaign began last week when forces hunting for militants linked to militant Islamist Osama bin Laden ran into a hail of bullets near Wana, capital of the desolate South Waziristan region.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aryan_Shponkai: *
sory man where was this feeling for us b4, uz never said anything like this b4. now that uz know that we have figured out that uz dont want good for us, uz are trying to bring developments into our territory. we dont want any aid fro any country, wo love the way we live now, we dont want it to be changed.
Long Live Pashtun Pride!
[/QUOTE]
Huh... Where was that "Pushtun Pride" when the US bombed the hell out of Afghanistan last year??? You all make me laugh...
Malik that is excellent news. People need to stop all this ethnic racism and move towards being more pakistani.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly!
It's a pity people some people who talk about the "superiority" of their culture over western cultures are sitting in Australia, when they should be in Afghanistan.