The full text of Taguba’s report is now online:
ARTICLE 15-6 INVESTIGATION OF THE 800th MILITARY POLICE BRIGADE
I’m sorry, but the stuff in there looks like standard fare for the Army.. This can only get worse.
btw, there’s secret noforn in there (so half you guys can’t look 
).. hmm… who leaked this?
Spoon,
That report, while appearing to be standard military fare is explosive. As a start, it lists the Iraqi’s who were subject to mistreatment. MSNBC traced down one of the victims, and interviewed him.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4900337/
A fine start would be an apology to this man and compensation. Let’s see if anyone has the sense to do this…
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
A fine start would be an apology to this man and compensation.
[/QUOTE]
Followed by Rumsfelds resignation.
The lack of post-war strategy, the lack of proper supplies in Iraq for U.S. soldiers and Iraqis alike, and now elements of torture and humiliation of prisoners by U.S. forces, absolutely unbelievable.
Saw a new video on ctv today where two iraqis were paraded in a field with their hands tied over the heads. Just as the walked a few steps, the soldiers opened fire killing both instantly. GI's were amused after watching the shootings.
The images made me remember listening to one of Sheikh Hamza's speeches where he mentions the time when the Mongols sacked Baghdad. Muslim pride had fallen to such a level that when a group of believers saw a Mongol without a weapon, they actually waited for the Mongol to equip himself and kill the entire group.
Now i compare these recent events with that time, and think to myself whether things are any worse than they were then.
Has the Muslim world hit rock bottom, or are we to face even more humiliation?? :(
New crisis for Bush & Blair: iraqi murdered and packed in ice!
[thumb=H]iraq7882_9979284.JPG[/thumb]
A photograph of an Iraqi man apparently beaten to death by US troops created a new crisis for George Bush and Tony Blair today.
President Bush was fighting to save the coalition’s credibility by making an unprecedented address on Arab television. The picture shows a body lying on a trolley, covered in ice and wrapped in Cellophane. His front teeth are missing, the nose appears to have been broken and both his eyes are puffed up and blackened. American staff sergeant Ivan Frederick, 37, wrote a letter detailing the man’s treatment.
He said: “They stressed him out so bad that the man passed away. They put his body in a body bag and packed him in ice for approximately 24 hours in the shower.”
The sergeant told of a clumsy attempt to pretend the man had died while receiving medical treatment. “The next day the medics came and put his body on a stretcher, placed a fake IV ( intravenous drip) in his arm and took him away.” The body was said to have been dumped in a Baghdad street.
Investigations so far have shown 12 died from natural or “undetermined” causes while one was “justifiable homicide”-Another 10 cases are still being investigated.
In his TV address, President Bush will plead for trust and say he is also shocked and appalled by such incidents.
Torture crisis grows
My goodness will the horror stories from Iraq ever end, this is getting bad to worse!
Arab anger at Iraq torture photos](BBC NEWS | Middle East | Arab anger at Iraq torture photos)
On the Arabic satellite channels, it’s “all torture, all the time” - wall-to-wall coverage of the photographs, the graphic images flooding into homes across the region.
**“The situation has not changed in Iraq; only the prison warder is different,” said one report on al-Arabiya. **
The news bulletin was playing loudly on a TV in the corner of a café in Cairo’s old town. Men looked up from their chess boards and water pipes.
“This is shameful, shameful, shameful,” said one, getting nods of agreement. “A soldier urinating on a prisoner, sexual abuse and humiliation, is this human?”
Pictures flashed by of naked bodies piled up on one another and the taunting grin of an American woman soldier. All this is especially upsetting in a culture which prizes dignity, modesty and respect.
**The man added: “The United States used to stand for liberty, now it stands for imperialism.” One of the waiters said he was ready to go to Iraq to become a martyr, fighting the Americans. **
These remarks were not surprising. The “Arab street” is often angry with the US and Israel. It is a safe way to express general discontent when criticism of your own leaders could be a risky business.
But there is no doubting the deep offence that these photographs have caused. The US Senator Joe Biden has called this the worst blow to American prestige in the Arab world for a decade.
The cafe I visited was well known in Cairo because - exceptionally - they cheered when the Americans took Baghdad and toppled Saddam just over a year ago. The coalition has no defenders there now.
And the damage goes beyond the usual tea-house chatter. The Arab League has condemned what it calls the savage mistreatment and humiliation of Iraqi prisoners by US and British soldiers.
The Arab Commission for Human Rights wants an urgent and independent investigation. It says these are not isolated incidents.
Shock and sorrow
Nearby, at Cairo University, a furious row was going on with the photographs being brandished in the face of a visiting academic who was brave enough to defend the Americans.
The Kuwaiti political scientist, Dr Shamlan al-Eesa, was pointing out an uncomfortable truth. In many parts of the Middle East, this is how the police are expected to behave.
“These things happen every day in the Arab world, but no one reports it,” he says. “That is the difference between the Arab world and the West - the West admits these things and tries to do something about it.”
Even if the images are staged, the damage has been done
He was on his own. “This reveals the real nature of the United States and its policy,” said a female student. “Democracy and human rights - all illusion.”
A male student added: “I was shocked. Why were these photographs taken at all? This implies the soldiers were enjoying themselves. This is what gives us most pain and sorrow.”
The US is trying to export democracy throughout the Middle East. There is no chance of that, says the Egyptian newspaper editor and democracy campaigner, Nabil Zaki.
“Now anything connected with the Americans is disliked,” he told me, “Ninety nine per cent of the people of this region hate the Americans. They consider them aggressors.”
Sometimes it almost seems as if the Arab media is revelling in the allegations. Al-Jazeera carried a report on one prisoner in Abu Ghraib: “Haj Ali, 58, crippled since he was a child.”
“He has several chronic diseases… Although he suffers health problems, he was treated as a veteran criminal,” the report said. “His arms and legs remained shackled even when he was hospitalised.”
**Al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya have both been criticised by the coalition, accused of hostile, inflammatory and inaccurate coverage. In common with the rest of the Arab media, they say the photographs show they were right all along. **
The danger for the coalition - and the West in general - is that in this climate, anything bad will be believed of US and British troops in Iraq.
The Iraqi newspaper al-Bayyinah carried a 2,000-word article, under the headline “Homosexuals Abuse Iraqis”, which said that Abu Ghraib had been turned into a “cowboy night club”.
“US soldiers drink alcohol over the prisoners’ bodies while the minarets make the call to prayer,” it said.
And another set of photographs is circulating on Arabic-language web sites. It apparently shows two Iraqi women, both wearing traditional black robes, being raped at gunpoint by men described as wearing US Army uniforms.
These pictures do not seem genuine: the uniforms do not seem right. The pictures of British soldiers abusing Iraqis might not be genuine either. But the damage has been done.
“The time will come when Iraqis will react to this,” said al-Jazeera. In Kuwait, one of America’s friends in the Arab world, al-Watan newspaper warned of “a gift to Islamic fundamentalists trying hard to defile the image of America”.
So perhaps, in the backroom of a mosque in Saudi Arabia, in Yemen, or in Iraq itself, a young Muslim is being shown these photographs - and is recruited for jihad.
Bush will be doing the PR dance on Arab TVs, but not on Al-Jazeera.
confettiguy, You don’t need to angry. I have used the same language, used by many of pro mid east press after any militant attack, that all this is propaganda; fake, baseless to malign our culture and religion. And all proofs, including eyewitnesses are rejected.
In this case Americans are cultured, educated. They have demanded a proper enquiry.
Let us forget that some Iraq militants have sent video films of Japanese and Italian prisoners kept at gun and knife points.
Re my spelling, cant help it, I am a complete desi.
If it was the other way around. A whole town or city would be wiped out for the one murder by now!
Why didn't the US give the Iraqi leadership an opportunity to make a defence and plea on State TV in the West trying to bridge a gap for the 4 US civilians that were murdered by the Iraqis?
Well, Bush goes on Arab TV, and the new general commanding prisons issues an apology. Prison is open to journalists. OK, so far so good. Next compensation to the victims, full investigations, cooperate with Congress, and frankly Rumsfeld may get to fall on a sword. He is difficult baggage anyway, may be a good time to clean things up before the election. Would love to hear what Rove is whispering in Bush’s ear.
Not a bad apology. We are all waiting for the tangible efforts in Iraq, and elsewhere.
U.S. Jail Chief Apologizes to Iraq Over Abuse
Wed May 5, 2004 12:08 PM ET
ABU GHRAIB, Iraq (Reuters) - The new general brought in to run U.S. military jails in Iraq following the prisoner abuse scandal offered his own and his nation’s apologies for the affair Wednesday to the people of Iraq.
“I would like to apologize for our nation and for our military for the small number of leaders and soldiers that have committed unauthorized and possibly illegal acts on the detained here at Abu Ghraib,” Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller said at the prison outside Baghdad where soldiers abused inmates last year.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5048946
In interviews with Arabic TV channels, Bush insisted that the abuse was not typical and that those responsible would be punished.
Earlier, the new US military chief of prisons in Iraq apologised for the “illegal or unauthorised” actions.
Photographs of naked Iraqi prisoners in humiliating poses next to laughing US soldiers have shocked the world.
President Bush told the US-funded al-Hurra network: "People in Iraq must understand that I view those practices as abhorrent.
We will do to ourselves what we expect of others
Excerpts: Bush interview
“They must also understand that what took place in that prison does not represent the America that I know.”
In interviews for al-Hurra and the al-Arabiya satellite channel he said that, in democracies, mistakes were made but: “There will be investigations, people will be brought to justice.”
Bush
makes luke warm Apology for IRaq Torture!
So the torture does not represent the amerikkka Bush knows where does bush live in disneyland or cloud cuckooland?
"cloud cuckooland"
Is that in Texas?
It is the desert and it is like 100 degrees, what do they pack the boodies in bubblewrap.
Bush did not apologise. after the interview his spokesman apologised. The reason according to British media was that in the election year he cannot be seen to be apologising. Still playing politics with peoples lives.
fair enough, then please ask your president to apoligize to the iraqi people, and withdraw his troops immediatly, since these past events have clearly shown the the american troops cannot be trusted.
And please dont tell me it was an isolated incident - NGO's working in Iraq had raised complaints about american troop behaviour 4 months ago.
Also the muslim troops serving in the US army stationed in Iraq should hang themselves, since i am pretty sure they knew what was happening to their brethren in the prisons. I always thought this religon surpassed all nationalities, races, color of skins, etc
Before religion comes humans, why does it matter if these acts were done to Muslims or non-Muslims, it makes it no better or worse.
Clearly the leadership is not there and I support that the Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, steps down.
Another letter from a serviceman, this time one serving in Baghdad as an MP.
Leadership gone bad
I have to say this stuff that happened at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq is an example of leadership gone really bad. I can’t believe for one second that those troops didn’t know what they were doing was wrong. Nor can I believe the command was not aware that it was occurring. It sure doesn’t help our cause here in Iraq or the perspective of our being humane and following the codes of conduct. It really angers me.
Of course this type of behavior has happened in past wars when prisoners were interrogated. But I believed we were above this level of abuse and maltreatment by now. Apparently this is not the case.
I remember when I was attached to a military police company while in the reserves years ago. We were given instructions as to the laws of prisoner treatment and the Geneva Conventions, as we continually do today. The 5 S’s — secure, silence, segregate, safeguard, speed — are taught to all MPs, and the Geneva Conventions laws of prisoner treatment are taught to all soldiers, military interrogators and civilians alike.
It really turns my stomach to think that I’m in the same Army as these people, let alone the same military occupational specialty, and at a level of leadership that allowed it to continue. To use ignorance as an excuse is totally lame. It’s shameful, and they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Sgt. Kevin McCue
Military policeman
Baghdad
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=21996
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ehsan: *
Bush did not apologise. after the interview his spokesman apologised. The reason according to British media was that in the election year he cannot be seen to be apologising. Still playing politics with peoples lives.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I was watching his speech and his choice of words was so carefully written. Still worried about elections? how sweet of you Mr Bush. who cares about few iraqis abused sexually and mentally, right? This all would be forgotten within a month or so while you 'investigate' ?? hmmmm
I think that Bush had very little to lose by apologizing, and I wish he had. However the number of heads of state who have actually "apologized" for some action of his counry, you could count on one hand. If the call for an apology becomes quite loud, he can always do this to some of the Iraqi press.
Coalition spokesmen Gen Kimmet:
"Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the spokesman for the U.S. command, also apologized.
“My Army has been embarrassed by this. My Army has been shamed by this,” Kimmitt said. “And on behalf of my Army, I apologize for what those soldiers did to your citizens.”
Frankly before this is over there will be more apologies than you can count.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
I think that Bush had very little to lose by apologizing, and I wish he had. However the number of heads of state who have actually "apologized" for some action of his counry, you could count on one hand. If the call for an apology becomes quite loud, he can always do this to some of the Iraqi press.
[/QUOTE]
Thats what Bush always maintained that whatever happens, he will never apologize for united states of america. Thats what happened here. He could have apolgozied but NO he rather would say that i m abhorrent at the incident. Oh what politics!!
Yes he is concerned with arab reaction and his apology might not have showered enough water on the fire arabs feel inside BUT this highlights that he is not willing to do his utmost to limit the damage. That is regretful. All higher ups are apologizng all right but IMO the apology that counts for Arabs is not there... yet.
By the way, if you can count leaders apologizing for their respective country, kindly consider the nature of the incident(s) too. Dont mention saddam though!