Too Extreme

[lethal_kamikaze]

:salam2:

Are today’s Muslims, become very lenient Muslim on the name of ‘modernism/modernization’? For example: While talking with my friend, he gave me a very good explanation that: “We all know that Fard of Fajar Namaaz is two rakats. What if we read three rakats instead of two? That mean we will read one more time Surah, do Rakku and Sajood. It means more we get more sawaab of reading of it and there is nothing wrong or what is wrong in that if we read three rakats instead of two for the sake of more ‘sawaab’”. Furthermore, he added: "it is wrong. Why. Because there is no authentic reference for reading three rakats instead of two.

Similar to that we do lot of things/acts which are very good and increase ‘sawaab’ but are those things/acts are according to the teaching of Qur’an and Sunnah. If ‘yes’ then there is no harm doing that but if its not then we shall avoid to do so even if we were called 'too extreme Muslims.

Please share your views.

[kchughtai]

Re: Too Extreme

“Obey Allah and Obey His messenger (pbuh)” That is the only way that begets sawaab. period.

[lethal_kamikaze]

Re: Too Extreme

Peace kchughtai,

What about “Command the good and forbid the bad”? Isn’t our duty to promote this also?

[ajazali]

Re: Too Extreme

^because this Islamic practice does not fit into modern ethics so we are getting apologetic Muslims.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Too Extreme

@lethal_kamikaze

Peace kchughtai,

What about “Command the good and forbid the bad”? Isn’t our duty to promote this also?

When you obey Allah, you will ultimately follow this as well.. but remember imposing is not the policy according to teachings of Islam. La- Ikrara- Fiddin

[ajazali]

Re: Too Extreme

@muqawwee123

When you obey Allah, you will ultimately follow this as well.. but remember imposing is not the policy according to teachings of Islam. La- Ikrara- Fiddin

agreed.
i dont even see excitement among people for preaching the religion, let aside the enforcement of islamic law.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Too Extreme

@ajazali

agreed.
i dont even see excitement among people for preaching the religion, let aside the enforcement of islamic law.

I think preaching for Islam is a totally different and difficult things in today’s time, amongst the various propaganda machines including so called liberal Muslims, who shun each and every simple teaching with the words ’ There is nothing absolute… These are metaphors and bla bla bla bla’.

[KKF]

Re: Too Extreme

will you get better faster if you double the dosage that your doctor prescribed?

[ajazali]

Re: Too Extreme

@muqawwee123

I think preaching for Islam is a totally different and difficult things in today’s time, amongst the various propaganda machines including so called liberal Muslims, who shun each and every simple teaching with the words ’ There is nothing absolute… These are metaphors and bla bla bla bla’.

and I observe a common thing among pakistani proganda machines, they have one way or another their interest with West and US.

[lethal_kamikaze]

Re: Too Extreme

@muqawwee123

When you obey Allah, you will ultimately follow this as well.. but remember imposing is not the policy according to teachings of Islam. La- Ikrara- Fiddin

Peace Muqawwee123,

‘La-Ikraha-Fiddin’ I think doesn’t fall here but before my inputs, may I request you to explain it further, with an example, is possible

[kchughtai]

Re: Too Extreme

@lethal_kamikaze

Peace kchughtai,

What about “Command the good and forbid the bad”? Isn’t our duty to promote this also?

What I said encompass everything. Yes we should also apply what you pointed out but ironically this phrase is the least understood one. This quote is very popular among those also who spread evil, chaos, kill, destroy in the name of religion of peace.

[psyah]

Re: Too Extreme

Peace bro lethal kamikaze

Yes, this is a very important topic. One that we should fully understand as modern day Muslims. There are actions that are driven from our needs and then there are actions that are imposed on us - that are not directly based on our needs.

There are also promises that we make or join a contract that turn certain things that would otherwise be good practice in to obligations.

Now when it comes to Shari’ah (Schools of Fiqh) - Every Obligatory, Recommended, Reprehensible, or Forbidden act must be understood in absolute terms … such that if any of these are not considered to be what they are then that is kufr and to make anything that is not as documented to be obligatory or forbidden as obligatory or forbidden or introducing a new matter that such and such is a matter of Shari’ah - i.e. praying 3 rakahs in fajr, fasting 40 days, or making a new pillar of Islam … these are all bidda’ and sometimes kufr.

However, du’a, and generally understood pious practices - like reciting the Qur’an, supererogatory fasts, are not part of Shari’ah, but must be performed in accordance with a given practice in Shari’ah. For example a nafili fast cannot be done without the iftar being done after maghrib. It is nafil, but the format cannot change, although the timing in the year of it is not fixed, the format of it has to stem from established formats.

As with prayer - you will notice that timing for fard prayer is fixed … nawafil prayer is not fixed, but certain times are forbidden.

Some people say that celebrating mawlid is bidda’ - but this cannot be true since no one claims the mawlid is part of Shariah … Rather for some people it becomes an excuse to observe more nawafil iba’dah and that in turn encourages the adherence to the faraid requirements. Some people fast every Mondays.

Generally gathering people together for an event is a separate activity is often mistaken to be a religious practice … but when such is done in order to walk the footsteps of the salaf in order to gain what they gained, then this is not bidd’a … For example if some person decides to go out in to the mountains to think about his life for a short while and then return - he manages to get some spiritual benefit so if another person wants to achieve the same there is nothing in wrong in him copying that act … and from this a “way” is developed … but a “way” is not the same as “introducing new matters in to the Deen”.

Because a “way” will only encode practices and routines in such a way that skirt around and enhance the effectiveness or quality of the “required” practices …

For these reasons we can’t use rationale to deduce that 3 rakahs are better than 2 rakahs for Fajr … But we can conclude that daily knocking at your neighbours house and praying in jamaat is better than just praying by yourself … Because the practice of helping each other get up for Fajr is not encoded in the Shar’iah … and the practice of praying in Jamaat is about gaining fadzilah … even though the basic requirement is for the individual to get up and pray by himself.

[Captain_Obvious]

Re: Too Extreme

@lethal_kamikaze

:salam2:

Are today’s Muslims, become very lenient Muslim on the name of ‘modernism/modernization’? For example: While talking with my friend, he gave me a very good explanation that: “We all know that Fard of Fajar Namaaz is two rakats. What if we read three rakats instead of two? That mean we will read one more time Surah, do Rakku and Sajood. It means more we get more sawaab of reading of it and there is nothing wrong or what is wrong in that if we read three rakats instead of two for the sake of more ‘sawaab’”. Furthermore, he added: "it is wrong. Why. Because there is no authentic reference for reading three rakats instead of two.

Similar to that we do lot of things/acts which are very good and increase ‘sawaab’ but are those things/acts are according to the teaching of Qur’an and Sunnah. If ‘yes’ then there is no harm doing that but if its not then we shall avoid to do so even if we were called 'too extreme Muslims.

Please share your views.

Can you provide more specific examples? It’s not very clear what you’re talking about here. I don’t see what the 2 or 3 rakaats for Fajr has to do with modernization or modern day Muslims.

[psyah]

Re: Too Extreme

@Captain_Obvious

Can you provide more specific examples? It’s not very clear what you’re talking about here. I don’t see what the 2 or 3 rakaats for Fajr has to do with modernization or modern day Muslims.

I think what he means is that modernity has made for questioning everything a norm … In the past some things were taboo … In the past some things just had to be followed out of respect or tradition … But a new wave that we need to address is the fact that everyone is asking … “Why” … And non rational answers are not good enough … So I think he is looking for rational ways to defeat the rational arguments … What has happened though is the normal reaction to rationalism is strictness in the other direction, that people will do takfir purely because others feel the need to question or use logic to make deductions. So to find a balance it is better to engage with the “questioning” people rather than ostracise them from society by giving them a name tag. In reality people are looking for guidance when they say … 3 rakahs are better than 2.

[Fbi786]

Re: Too Extreme

There is No room in Islam for ‘Self proclaimed sheikh google taught mullahs’, It is these who are the root cause of deviant and astray acts which may seem to be of righteous cause but in actual fact they mislead. Its like Selling Coca Cola, People believe it to be a drink, the shop keeper sells it and makes money on it - profit is Allowed but where is that money going to, Israel. Just like it. An act is righteous, a self proclaimed mullah things he is IT but this act is leading people to wrong path, just like doing mas’ah on feet is allowed oh shortage of water, and if you have leather socks which do not penetrate water, masah is done upon them, however, the self proclaimed have spread this false notion that masah is also jai’ez on trainers and i have personally come across those of this thought and even prayed with trainers on.

so we need to put an end to this ‘clan’ and learn from the true scholars.

[psyah]

Re: Too Extreme

@Fbi786

There is No room in Islam for ‘Self proclaimed sheikh google taught mullahs’, It is these who are the root cause of deviant and astray acts which may seem to be of righteous cause but in actual fact they mislead. Its like Selling Coca Cola, People believe it to be a drink, the shop keeper sells it and makes money on it - profit is Allowed but where is that money going to, Israel. Just like it. An act is righteous, a self proclaimed mullah things he is IT but this act is leading people to wrong path, just like doing mas’ah on feet is allowed oh shortage of water, and if you have leather socks which do not penetrate water, masah is done upon them, however, the self proclaimed have spread this false notion that masah is also jai’ez on trainers and i have personally come across those of this thought and even prayed with trainers on.

so we need to put an end to this ‘clan’ and learn from the true scholars.

Hafz Saab

How are you? Apne duaon mein yaad rakheeyega

[lethal_kamikaze]

Re: Too Extreme

@psyah

Peace bro lethal kamikaze
Generally gathering people together for an event is a separate activity is often mistaken to be a religious practice … but when such is done in order to walk the footsteps of the salaf in order to gain what they gained, then this is not bidd’a … For example if some person decides to go out in to the mountains to think about his life for a short while and then return - he manages to get some spiritual benefit so if another person wants to achieve the same there is nothing in wrong in him copying that act … and from this a “way” is developed … but a “way” is not the same as “introducing new matters in to the Deen”.

Because a “way” will only encode practices and routines in such a way that skirt around and enhance the effectiveness or quality of the “required” practices …

Peace psyah bhai and for explaining this in detail. Allow me to input further to explain what is actually in my mind. By taking from your given example: that a person decided to go out in to the mountains to think about his life for a short while and then returned with some spiritual benefit so if another person wants to achieve the same there is nothing in wrong in him copying that act but what if this became a kind of trend although there is nothing wrong. Kindly note this trend will not come into existence over a night but it will be adopted very very slowly but effectively and I feel (I might be wrong) that one day it will be very hard to abundant this ‘way’ even if one wants too.

While in our gathering, when we don’t reach at any point we says to each others, lets start all over again from ‘Zero Point’ and that ‘Zero Point’ is ‘Qur’an and Sunnah of our Prophet PBUH’. But many of us don’t even wants to stat all over again. You can differentiate this by reading posts of all who posted here.

Moreover, one thought which never gets out of my mind that foremost of all ways, we have one ‘way’, that is the way of our Prophet PBUH, to follow. So do we still in need to follow other ways which comes second after the Prophet’s PBUH way?

Hope I was able to explain what we were exactly discussed with my friend.

P.S. I’m not saying I’m very knowledgeable and an expert but actually i’m started all over from Zero point and really need help to understand things better then before.

[lethal_kamikaze]

Re: Too Extreme

@Captain_Obvious

Can you provide more specific examples? It’s not very clear what you’re talking about here. I don’t see what the 2 or 3 rakaats for Fajr has to do with modernization or modern day Muslims.

Peace Captain Obvious,

Example like:

Today we teach our children that learn this and that so you’ll become successful in this or that field and your future will be secured. Why don’t we teach our children that learn Quran and hadith, and always ‘Tawakal allal- Allah’ so that our both future will be secured. P.S. there is absolutely nothing wrong if one learn something that related to only this world.

@Fbi786

There is No room in Islam for ‘Self proclaimed sheikh google taught mullahs’, It is these who are the root cause of deviant and astray acts which may seem to be of righteous cause but in actual fact they mislead. Its like Selling Coca Cola, People believe it to be a drink, the shop keeper sells it and makes money on it - profit is Allowed but where is that money going to, Israel. Just like it. An act is righteous, a self proclaimed mullah things he is IT but this act is leading people to wrong path, just like doing mas’ah on feet is allowed oh shortage of water, and if you have leather socks which do not penetrate water, masah is done upon them, however, the self proclaimed have spread this false notion that masah is also jai’ez on trainers and i have personally come across those of this thought and even prayed with trainers on.

so we need to put an end to this ‘clan’ and learn from the true scholars.

Peace FBI,

:salam2: kaise ho? btw i have no idea what u r talking about.

[psyah]

Re: Too Extreme

@lethal_kamikaze

Peace psyah bhai and for explaining this in detail. Allow me to input further to explain what is actually in my mind. By taking from your given example: that a person decided to go out in to the mountains to think about his life for a short while and then returned with some spiritual benefit so if another person wants to achieve the same there is nothing in wrong in him copying that act but what if this became a kind of trend although there is nothing wrong. Kindly note this trend will not come into existence over a night but it will be adopted very very slowly but effectively and I feel (I might be wrong) that one day it will be very hard to abundant this ‘way’ even if one wants too.

While in our gathering, when we don’t reach at any point we says to each others, lets start all over again from ‘Zero Point’ and that ‘Zero Point’ is ‘Qur’an and Sunnah of our Prophet PBUH’. But many of us don’t even wants to stat all over again. You can differentiate this by reading posts of all who posted here.

Moreover, one thought which never gets out of my mind that foremost of all ways, we have one ‘way’, that is the way of our Prophet PBUH, to follow. So do we still in need to follow other ways which comes second after the Prophet’s PBUH way?

Hope I was able to explain what we were exactly discussed with my friend.

P.S. I’m not saying I’m very knowledgeable and an expert but actually i’m started all over from Zero point and really need help to understand things better then before.

BarakAllahufik … Bro lethal kamikaze

We cannot follow the example of RasoolAllah (SAW) directly … To think so if a fallacy. Who has seen RasoolAllah (SAW) to say he follows directly? Everything in Islam we have from Tariqah, to Aqeedah to Shari’ah has come to us from scholars, students who were were students who were students of the Salaf the followers of Aqa Sayyidina RasoolAllah Mustapha Abu Qasim Muhammad Ibn Abdullah (SAW) …

Anyone who thinks they are following Sunnah are really either following their own interpretation or someone else’s interpretation … It is better to follow someone else’s interpretation unless you have studied Islam at a deep level, even then most interpretations are based on previous interpretations.

People think they are following Sunnah by referring to hadith … But the hadith are snippets of recorded narrations … Tafasir and the poetry of Arabic tries its hardest to capture the fullest essence of the language and culture, but it has changed … We can only rely on those people who have copied their scholars perfectly … Just like we rely on the mutawatir unbroken chains of hadith for our peace of mind … Knowing that we will always be separate …

Yes, trends do become commonplace … But as long as we don’t start calling those trends as part of Islam but part of our way to get to enhance Islam inside us then this is not introducing a new matter. For if it was then going to mosque in a car, or using aircraft to travel to umrah or many things we do as modern day Muslims would be forbidden … We must be consistent in interpretation … That is more important.

These ideas I take from Shaykh Abdal Hakim Murad, Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, Shaykh Muhammad Al-Yaqoubi and these are not my own …

[lethal_kamikaze]

Re: Too Extreme

Peace Psyah,

I read or heard that a Companion were appointed as a Governor of such and such country and Prophet Muhammad asked him that if a situation or a matter occurred after me than what he (the companion) will do?. He replied that he will seek help from Quran and from your (Prophet’s PBUH Sunnah) narrations. He then asked what if it is not found in both. Companion replied that I’ll do ‘Ijtihad’. Whereas Prophet Muhammad said, till there are peoples like this Companion in my Ummat, the Islam will last longer.

I don’t remember the exact contents nor sure whether its true of false but the point is that as u stated in above posts that “everything in Islam we have from Tariqah, to Aqeedah to Shari’ah has come to us from scholars, students who were were students who were students of the Salaf the followers of Aqa Sayyidina RasoolAllah Mustapha Abu Qasim Muhammad Ibn Abdullah (SAW) …”

If we counter-check that Shari’ah, Aqeedah, Tariqah came to us from scholars who were student of the students of the Salafs, is this wrong?