Two examples:
A girl I knew told me that her father had hit her mother and damaged her eye severely. The mother would not admit anything and insisted she fell.
Another friend’s son stole money from her bag and vomited wine that he had drunk outside the house all over the sofa. She wouldn’t tell her husband.
When you have problems…
Who do you go to?
Are they spoken about in your family?
[quote]
Originally posted by Shirin:
**Two examples:
A girl I knew told me that her father had hit her mother and damaged her eye severely. The mother would not admit anything and insisted she fell.
Another friend's son stole money from her bag and vomited wine that he had drunk outside the house all over the sofa. She wouldn't tell her husband.
When you have problems...
Who do you go to?
Are they spoken about in your family?
**
[/quote]
If I hit my wife, she'd call the police.
When I go to stores with the kids, I tell/show what's right and wrong. They are still very young but.... keeping fingers crossed.
Hitting wife ... come on Shirin, we live in 2001 .... this is not a jungle rule.
At least I wouldn't even think about hitting my wife.
Najim these are examples from real life. Incredible as it may seem these things really happened and keep happening. Even in "good" families. Just because you and I are fortunate we shouldn't ignore the sad reality of other peoples' livee.
And the shocking thing is that people don't have the courage to speak, to cry out for help and change their lives, Their self esteem is probabaly so low they think they deserve it. They are afraid to face the world on their own.
But my point is, how do we encourage people to speak out about these things? these topics are so often hidden, swept under the carpet. And that's not the way to resolve the problem.
The rule of thumb (I hate this term “the rule of thumb”), let me tell you where it originated. In 13th century English Common Law, it was allowed to beat your wife so long as the Stick was not thicker than one’s Thumb, hence the term “Rule of Thumb”. So the tradition continues. In many societies women are victimized and it is accepted as a norm, however, not a good norm. In our society (i.e., Desi) the family secrets are rarely discussed mostly due to the concept of ‘Honor’ and ‘Shame’. The woman in Shirin’s example feels powerless even to the point of not admitting that it happened to her. In other words, she is in Denial.
Ideally, families should discuss everything that goes around within the family and among the family members. In my nuclear family we discuss everything. In my other family (mom, dad, siblings, etc.) we don’t discuss everything, but everyone knows what goes on.
[quote]
Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
*.. The woman in Shirin’s example feels powerless even to the point of not admitting that it happened to her. In other words, she is in Denial. *
[/quote]
I would digress on this point. The wife does not live in deniel. It is just that she is protecting the honor of the husband's family and the honor of her own family. This due to how the girls were raised - not to bring bad name to maika whatever happens.
Fast forward to today's world: The old world values are not so strong but are still there. I have known families where this happened. If the family has children and the wife calls the police, they will come a few times and then if there is physical harm they are apt to arrest the husband. Now we have a situaion that has gone from really bad to worse..."Damn if you do, damn if you don't". Most of the families have kids. Now the situation reeeaaallly becomes unique. If, after what happens above, there is divorce in the air, now what? Now the concern is what have the children done wrong to deserve a punishment of living without a parent. If the wife is not a professional then, if she divorces, what would she do?
Thus, many women keep quite. A LOT rides on their decision....potentially more then her own life is at stake. But as women are being educated, they are learning that they have some rights, as even Islam permits. Don't belive that this sort of stuff does not happen or won't happen....There is not even a guarantee that it won't happen to you. Many men can "control" themselves. Some have a higher level of testosterone. Remember, once marriage kicks in, perception, expectations, and thoughts tend to change rather unintentionally towards the partners. There is more of sense of 'belonging' together with much less thought of 'separating'.
Well, to keep is simple, Islam has an answer to this. I think you kind of undstand what I am tryin to say. It's not a simple thing to say that women don't have a choice or they have a choice. I might be wrong but I believe that, to a large degree, parents have faulted in teaching their kids, especially the sons, that they just can not hit a girl - not just when they were young but also put into their heads that they can not take that behavior/attitude with their wives, also. Again, it's my opinion which may or may not change towards my sons.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...
[quote]
Originally posted by jannu:
** I would digress on this point. The wife does not live in deniel. It is just that she is protecting the honor of the husband's family and the honor of her own family.
**
[/quote]
And what does she gain from her sacrifice? A higher place in society? Sure....that's great....she can sit higher than the rest....all black and blue from bruises and crushed internally from emotional turmoil.
Sounds lovely.
[quote]
Originally posted by Shirin:
**Two examples:
A girl I knew told me that her father had hit her mother and damaged her eye severely. The mother would not admit anything and insisted she fell.
Another friend's son stole money from her bag and vomited wine that he had drunk outside the house all over the sofa. She wouldn't tell her husband.
When you have problems...
Who do you go to?
Are they spoken about in your family?
**
[/quote]
That are difficult situations. On one hand you want to take some action, because you see that these people have problems, which they seem to be unable to solve themselves. But on the other hand, they might feel that their privacy is violated. Wouldn't your friend mind, if you did something about it without letting her solve this problem on her own?
Anyway I think if I'd find out about somebody beating his wife, I couldn't resist to interfere. As most of you have correctly said: FOR GOD'S SAKE WE ARE LIVING IN THE 21ST CENTURY!
Umer, the Pakistani Brain of Austria
[This message has been edited by Umer (edited July 03, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Shirin:
**Two examples:
A girl I knew told me that her father had hit her mother and damaged her eye severely. The mother would not admit anything and insisted she fell.
Another friend's son stole money from her bag and vomited wine that he had drunk outside the house all over the sofa. She wouldn't tell her husband.
When you have problems...
Who do you go to?
Are they spoken about in your family?
**
[/quote]
I think these two are completely different examples, in the first one if i was the wife or the daughter, i'd keep quiet, for a number of reasons... which have already been listed in the thread.
In the second situation, if i was the woman i'd probably tell my husband, cause you aren't helping the kid by not saying anything. If you can't do anything to change the child or show him what he did is wrong, then you should atleast tell someone who can.
I think in such cases women are afraid of being divorced & becoming homeless. So they may be protecting the husband but themselves too. Many times woman's parents are unable to support her.
Education & ability to work if needed is the key to end this.
totally spoken bout in our family... what is a family for? this whole honour crap is just taht...crap! women are their own enemies....had a case in some part of our family some time ago.... man hit his wife...so there was a long line of ppl waiting to get a pce of the man...first the wife really whipped him up bad...then the father of the guy... then his mom......speak out about it.... there is no such thing as saving the hubby's honour or whatever... cuz honourale hubbys dont whack up their wives
life will continue to be a bitch....SO BITE BACK!!!
[quote]
Originally posted by roshnie:
I think in such cases women are afraid of being divorced & becoming homeless. So they may be protecting the husband but themselves too. Many times woman's parents are unable to support her.
Education & ability to work if needed is the key to end this.
[/quote]
Absolutely. Women don't want to live in abusive situations. They are human beings. Sure in families where they get bruised and blue, as Muzna said, they either divorce, as happens more now, or find a level field where they learn to exist - thereby reduce the abuse they get.
If you have noticed, they behavior is not limited to our society. It happens in other societies where the level of education is higher compared to ours.
When there are kids involved, for many - near majority, the option to separate is not one they want to think about. It's easier for men to separate then for women, as Roshnie said, but there is still the thought of family honor - which is more of an elusive concept in the minds of those who have been born/grownup on the West.