To Saddam's prisoners, US abuse seems 'a joke'

i also got the VDO link to it but it wa taking more tha 7 hrs to doen load on my PC so i searched for the analysis and found this … it shows what Sadam had been doing with his prisoners during his reign … the question is that when our own rulers r treating us that brutally how can we blame some other “saviour army” that they didn’t treat us according to the "Geneva convention "

By David Kupelian
(c) 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

The heated charge that prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib by U.S. service
personnel was somehow equivalent to that perpetrated by Saddam Hussein - a
notion pervasive in the Muslim world and epitomized in the West by Sen.
Edward Kennedy’s remark that "we now learn that Saddam’s torture chambers
reopened under new management, U.S. management’’ - has had ice-cold water
dumped on it by a horrific new video.

Screened for reporters last week by Washington’s American
http://www.aei.org Enterprise Institute, the 4-plus-minute video clip,
reportedly obtained from the Pentagon, captures the routine beating,
torture, dismemberment and decapitation that occurred daily at the hands of
Saddam’s henchmen.

However, only a handful of reporters showed up to see the new video, and
even fewer reported on it.

One journalist present was New York Post’s Washington bureau chief Deborah
Orin, http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/23065.htm who
wrote of “savage scenes of decapitation, fingers chopped off one by one,
tongues hacked out with a razor blade - all while victims shriek in pain and
the thugs chant Saddam’s praises.”

Iraqi prisoner beaten by Saddam’s torturers (AEI video)

Noting that “Saddam’s henchmen took the videos as newsreels to document
their deeds in honor of their leader,” Orin added, “but these awful images
didn’t show up on American TV news.”

In fact, Orin mulled, why did no U.S. media “air the videos of Nick Berg and
Wall Street Journal reporter Danny Pearl getting decapitated, or of U.S.
contractors in Fallujah getting torn limb from limb by al-Qaida operatives,”
and yet gave saturation coverage, including endless photos, of Iraqi
prisoners being abused by U.S. troops at Abu Ghraib.

For that matter, why did no U.S. media air images of American hostage Paul
M. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39032 Johnson
Jr. being beheaded earlier this week by his terrorist captors in Saudi
Arabia?

“Because most [journalists] want Bush to lose,” AEI scholar Michael Ledeen,
who helped put on the video screening event, told Orin.

The sustained fever-pitch publicity over the abuses at Abu Ghraib has
included only occasional oblique references to what transpired at the prison
under Saddam Hussein’s rule.

Saddam’s henchmen amputating fingers of Iraqi victim (AEI video)

“Under Saddam Hussein,” the AEI website said of Abu Ghraib, “some thirty
thousand people were executed there, and countless more were tortured and
mutilated, returning to Iraqi society as visible evidence of the brutality
of Baathist rule instead of being lost to the anonymity of mass graves.”

Amputation complete (AEI video)

Present at the screening event were four victims of Saddam’s torture. They,
along with three other merchants living and working in Baghdad, each had
their right hands amputated during Saddam’s reign. Fortunately, all seven
came to the United States for medical attention and received
state-of-the-art prosthetic hands. Four of them spoke at the AEI event,
alongside the screening of the video documenting Saddam’s horrors.

Culture of torture

Putting the U.S. military’s abuses of Abu Ghraib into better context is a
recent document from the State Department’s Bureau of Democracy, Human
Rights and Labor. Here’s what the official December 2002 report said about
the scope and extent of Saddam’s abuse of Iraq’s population.

"In 1979, immediately upon coming to power, Saddam Hussein silenced all
political opposition in Iraq and converted his one-party state into a cult
of personality. Over the more than 20 years since then, his regime has
systematically executed, tortured, imprisoned, raped, terrorized and
repressed Iraqi people. Iraq is a nation rich in culture with a long history
of intellectual and scientific achievement. Yet Saddam Hussein has silenced
its scholars and doctors, as well as its women and children.

"Iraqi dissidents are tortured, killed or disappear in order to deter other
Iraqi citizens from speaking out against the government or demanding change.
A system of collective punishment tortures entire families or ethnic groups
for the acts of one dissident. Women are raped and often videotaped during
rape to blackmail their families. Citizens are publicly beheaded, and their
families are required to display the heads of the deceased as a warning to
others who might question the politics of this regime.

“Saddam Hussein was also the first leader to use chemical weapons against
his own population, silencing more than 60 villages and 30,000 citizens with
poisonous gas. Between 1983 and 1988 alone, he murdered more than 30,000
Iraqi citizens with mustard gas and nerve agents. Several international
organizations claim that he killed more than 60,000 Iraqi citizens with
chemicals, including large numbers of women and children.”

‘Hopelessness, sadness and fear’

“The Iraqi people are not allowed to vote to remove the government,” said
the State Department report. (In the last election, there was one candidate.
The ballot said “Saddam Hussein: Yes or No?” Each ballot was numbered so any
no votes could be traced to the unfortunate voter, who would disappear
forever. Saddam got 100 percent of the vote.)

“Freedom of _expression, association and movement do not exist in Iraq. The
media is tightly controlled - Saddam Hussein’s son owns the daily Iraqi
newspaper. Iraqi citizens cannot assemble except in support of the
government. Iraqi citizens cannot freely leave Iraq.”

Safia Al Souhail, an Iraqi citizen and advocacy director of the
International Alliance for Justice, described daily reality during Saddam’s
reign this way:

“Iraq under Saddam’s regime has become a land of hopelessness, sadness and
fear. A country where people are ethnically cleansed; prisoners are tortured
in more than 300 prisons in Iraq. Rape is systematic … congenital
malformation, birth defects, infertility, cancer and various disorders are
the results of Saddam’s gassing of his own people … the killing and
torturing of husbands in front of their wives and children … Iraq under
Saddam has become a hell and a museum of crimes.”

The State Department report continues: “Under Saddam Hussein’s orders, the
security apparatus in Iraq routinely and systematically tortures its
citizens. Beatings, rape, breaking of limbs and denial of food and water are
commonplace in Iraqi detention centers. Saddam Hussein’s regime has also
invented unique and horrific methods of torture including electric shocks to
a male’s genitals, pulling out fingernails, suspending individuals from
rotating ceiling fans, dripping acid on a victim’s skin, gouging out eyes,
and burning victims with a hot iron or blowtorch.”

Why didn’t more Iraqis complain? Possibly because of Saddam’s decree in 2000
authorizing the government to amputate the tongues of citizens who criticize
him or his government. The AEI video depicts one such tongue amputation,
using a razor blade while the tongue is held with tweezers.

The following, according to the State Department report, were routine in
Iraq during Saddam Hussein’s rule:

  • Medical experimentation
  • Beatings
  • Crucifixion
  • Hammering nails into the fingers and hands
  • Amputating sex organs or breasts with an electric carving knife
  • Spraying insecticides into a victim’s eyes
  • Branding with a hot iron
  • Committing rape while the victim’s spouse is forced to watch
  • Pouring boiling water into the victim’s rectum
  • Nailing the tongue to a wooden board
  • Extracting teeth with pliers
  • Using bees and scorpions to sting naked children in front of their
    parents

Saddam also routinely tortured and murdered women. The daily newspaper
“Babel,” owned by Uday, Hussein’s eldest son, contained a public admission

All of the above and more will undoubtedly be brought to the forefront of world attention during the trial of Saddam. My guess is that the sheer horror and brutality of what he did will "shock and awe" an awful lot of people on the Iraqi, Arab, European and American street.

It is only when this is shown to the world that the US abuse will be able to be viewed within a contextual framework that will enable people to understand and weigh the degrees of evil. I doubt Abu Ghraib will ever be deemed "a joke." But, naked pyramids will simply not measure up to the horrors suffered by the Iraqi people at Saddam's hand. Maybe some will view us a little more kindly when the truth is out.

My, my, my.

Now look who’s talking about looking at issues within their ‘contexts’.

:flower1:

not that i think torture didnt happen in iraq, but i wouldnt trust anything coming out of aei.

Nadia my dear. Don’t confuse “root causes” with “contexts.” “Context” is everything. “Root causes” are "cr*p.

I think the root cause of making an Iraqi masturbate in front of his fellow prisoners is irrelevant to it being right or wrong.

However, putting it in context with “amputating sex organs or breasts with an electric carving knife” or “tongue amputation,
using a razor blade while the tongue is held with tweezers” allows one to rank the evil on a scale of 1 to 10. It’s sort of like figuring out which is worse: beheading someone or practicing polytheism.

You wouldn’t object would you to Iraqis learning that Saddam was busy “using bees and scorpions to sting naked children in front of their
parents” all the while when he was complaining that the UN was practicing genocide on them with sanctions?

:flower2:

okay, compared to saddam our actions in abu gahraib were not as brutal based on what we know.

Why would we want to compare ourselves with the likes of saddam, are'nt there better benchmarks, heck we should be the dang benchmark.

Exactly Fraudiya, that’s why the hue and cry in the US about the mistreatment of prisoners.

God I wish us Americans had joined forces with the muslim world in going after the likes of Saddam and now the sudan debacle :smack:

MV, you know all of this how? Do we know what goes on in Gitmo? Please shed some light on that as well

MV,

So now the baseline for the actions of US soldiers, is marked by Saddam Hussein. Excellent :k: Why not compare ourselves to Hitler? You are comparing the actions of a democratic country, with the actions of a tyrant/despot/dictator. Something not quite accurate in that equation.

All of our actions and all of those of others ought to be compared against both Hitler and Saddam and the actions of all other people. The comparison is not done to approve of the evil acts of anyone. That Americans hold themselves to a higher standard is evident by the hue and cry and disgust Americans have voiced over the actions at Abu Ghraib.

That said, all evil is not the same. There is not a moral equivalence between forming a naked pyramid AND beheading people, cutting off their tongues with razor blades, and dropping them in meat grinders. The tendency is for too many people to judge America’s behaviour only against democratic and civilized values while judging other people’s conduct against a bar that is so low that it is practically buried underground. Thus, America becomes the Great Satan and those whose conduct is the very worst of what could ever be imagined become freedom fighters whose evils are hidden behind excuses of root causes.

EDIT:
Come to think of it Nadia, I think you’re looking at this backwards. You ask why we should use Hitler’s and Saddam’s conduct as the baseline to measure our actions. Why is it not appropriate to use the conduct of the democratic and civilized world as the baseline against which to measure the conduct of Saddam and Hitler and their ilk?

The way you look at things, measured against democratic and civilized standards, you conclude the US conduct is atrocious. Then, you can look at Saddam’s or the terrorist’s conduct and say, measured against the uncivilized and undemocratic standards that apply to these folks, their conduct is not so bad. Using that thinking, we can easily be passed off as the greater evil which we are not.