Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople...

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople...

aakhir mein i jus wana say, i dont get it, this is a PAKISTANI forum
and every single thread is dominated by indians?
how come they decide the fate/direction of the discussion
they come in with their useless propaganda and then hum saray usay counter kerne mein lag jatay haen
maybe next time they should just be ignored and the issue at hand be discussed coz their intention to post in the thread seems not to be that of constructive contribution but deliberate distraction and incitation...
edit: i SERIOUSLY think their posts/attitude needs to be monitored over some time and if they continue with this behavior they should be given warning points b/c they don't come here for sincere discussion and therefore detract from the actual topic

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople...

Haris bhaijaan, you could have taken the hindu part out too. And I only answered in that way because of what he said. Anyways I know it was wrong. No problem and I appalogize.

Irem baaji, Yes! I totally agree with you.

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople…

:slight_smile:

Totally :k:

And Harris sorry if I stepped my bounds in the thread at any point. I kept it in mind and I don’t think I did but if you think I did then it was in reaction to some really lame and retarded comments.

Will try to cooperate better in future threads :salute: :slight_smile:

Mirza_Sahib :slight_smile:

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople…

No, they are not Mohajir their forefathers were Mohajir, even ours were at one point or another, now they are just simply Karachians or Pakistanis like everyone else.

We hate Musharraf because he has shamed us infront of the world, it would have been better to die standing up than to live kneeling down and now his hounds are turning againt our fellow countrymen, makes you want to hate Pakistan.

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople…

Irem, :slight_smile:
Ive never seen you step out of bound anywhere and ofcourse not here either, its usually the same bunch calling for trouble each time everywhere.
lets hope all will be in harmony in future.

and Irem, thanks for your views on my comments and an analysis on them. I’ll follow and discuss on them later, getting too late and sleepy now!

Mirza-Sahib,
thats fine, glad you understand :k:

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople…

Harris, thanks for mod’ing the outrage that was beginning here. I assure you, I never have and never will wantonly belittle pakistan.

BUT (you, you know it was coming) if follwoing is what is acceptable to you, do you think sufficient moderation exists?

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople…

You really need to get a life.

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople...

According to great Tipu Sultan

"One day's life of a lion is preferable to hundred years' of a jackal"

So Bushrraf is a jackal that will stay in power for a long long time by selling the sanctity of this Islamic nation to India and west. But he will never get any respect in the eyes to his countryman. InshaAllah

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople…

^oh cmonnnn…when did tipu sultan become a prophet?..if the brave muslims of that time had even an iota of aqal in comparison, u think a dumb east india company wud have gotten anywhere in the whole subcontinent…we dont need exactly these kinds of flashes in the pan…jackal…who led the kargil operation, it was something wasn’t it…the man has gone the spectrum, he doesnt need no hoo-haa to prove what he can do militarily…i think he is a lil beyond comparison with tipu sardar…:flower1:

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople…

irem baji, bring this to administrations attention by posting it in feedback forum :slight_smile:
I kinda agree.

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople…

East India Company took over the country because of jackals like Mir Jafer and Mir Sadiq and Busharraf is jackal of today’s era. I supported him for what he did in Kargil but that was his job as a chief of Army to defend the borders of our country. What he is doing right now is politics that is not his job. Shame on you Busharraf, shame on you.

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople...

^ he is doing more than just plain politics....just how many people r there in kashmir?.....u think they r worth jeopardizing the lives of the millions of people in pakistan and in india...are Muslim lives this cheap that u can afford to have a perpetual nuclear race for just a piece of land?.....'freedom struggle'....will kashmiri muslims die if india takes control of india....where in Islam does it say u shud be ready to sacrifice millions of lives just for a piece of land....i really think we need to come out of the propaganda Islam mindset.....

i know ,to u i'll just sound like another jackal.....another of those trying to explain away "principle" in light of buzdil strategy/aqalmandi....but unfortunately just look at what i have just written....just where in Islam do you find these principles.....that u shud be ready to scardfifice millions of muslim lives for the sake of a piece of land.......just tell me that.....ya it says to protect yr property, but it also says to save yr lives doesnt it?....so tell me, why is pragmatism alwasy taken to mean buzdili?

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople...

Bushrraf is a traitor who compromised the cause of Kashmir for his own power not for “millions” who would die. This whole argument of “millions’ dying is just and exaggeration. Even if comes true then be it that way. Dying for your country and believes with honor and with dignity is much better than living a miserable life of a slave of Kaafirs. I won't go low at your level, so I refrain from personal attacks. .

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople...

go low at my level?.....where did i attack anyone personally.....just show me where, seriously?...
honor and dignity? when you dont have Islam backing you there, it may just be taken to mean unwarranted pride and arrogance or stubbornness you know? slave of kafirs? is he selling away pakistan, that u r saying that? how do we become 'slaves of india', if we tone down our position on kashmir?

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople...

^ sorry I misread.

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople…

I find it encouraging.

As hard-liners on the Pakistani side complain about what’s happening, the Indian hard-liners are also complaining that India’s government is betraying India’s claim on kashmir.

With the hard-liners on both sides being sidelined, we may just about manage to arrive at a compromise that spares both countries from decades of hostility and excessive military expenditures.

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople...

Well lets just wait and see.

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople…

great, you see guys thats whats happening…there is confusion sure, but theres a lot that we commoners dont perceive, indians have the same fears…
so lets see how this all turns, lets not run to conclusions and let our hatred for one person go that wild…lets hope for the best.
very good relevant post MS :k:

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople…

Musharraf Indicates a Freeze on Kashmir Following Indo-China Formula

By Arun Rajnath

http://www.satribune.com/archives/200503/P1_arun4.htm

NEW DELHI, March 20: Pakistan’s General Pervez Musharraf has indicated he supports the ‘China Formula’ to freeze the Kashmir dispute for a while as part of the efforts to resolve all outstanding issues with India. This impression was gathered by the Indian Communist Party leaders who recently met the General in Pakistan.

An internal and confidential report on the Left movement in Pakistan and the outcome of talks held between the Indian Left leaders and General Musharraf, Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz and Foreign Minister Khurshid Ahmed Kasuri, was presented to the Politburo of the Communist Party of India-Marxist (CPI-M) here on March 19.

After the discussion, the report would be presented before the meeting of the Central Committee today. Thereafter, it would be discussed in the Party Congress beginning April 6. It is expected that after the conclusion of the Party Congress, the CPI-M General Secretary would apprise the Prime Minister, Dr. Manmohan Singh, about what transpired between the leaders of the Left and Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf.

In the meeting of the Politburo, the highest body of the CPI-M, besides General Secretary Harkishan Singh Surjeet, present were Prakash Karat, Sitaram Yechury, S. Ramchandaran Pillai, MK Pandhe, P. Ramchandaran, R. Umanath, E. Balanandan, Jyoti Basu, Anil Biswas, Buddhadeb Bhattacharya, Biman Basu, VS Achutanandan, K. Satyanarayan, Manik Sarkar and P. Vijayan.

On the invitation of the Left parties of Pakistan, a five-member delegation of the Indian Left leaders visited Pakistan from February 24 to March 4, 2005. CPI-M General Secretary Harkishan Singh Surjeet, Naresh Nadeem and Murali represented CPI-M whereas General Secretary AB Bardhan and Shameem Faizee represented the CPI.

The Communist Party of Pakistan, Communist Mazdoor Kissan Party, Mazdoor Kissan Party, and Labor Party invited these leaders. The National Workers’ Party also took part in the interaction with the Indian Left leaders who visited Lahore, Islamabad, Rawalpindi, Sahiwal, Faisalabad and Karachi. They held broad discussions with the Pak Left parties on various bilateral issues. They also took stock of the internal political situation in Pakistan and the prospects of Left movement on socio-politico-economic front.

Initially, the Indian Left leaders had no program to meet General Pervez Musharraf. Before their departure for Pakistan, Pakistan High Commissioner to India, Aziz Ahmed Khan, had rushed to the headquarters of the CPI-M to request the leaders to have an audience with Musharraf.

During their discussions with Pak Left leaders, they agreed on the proposal of the ‘China Formula’ to resolve all outstanding issues. Later, General Secretary Harkishan Singh Surjeet apprised Musharraf of their views and requested him to consider it. He also held one-on-one talks with the General for half an hour. It is believed that Musharraf primarily agreed to the formula.

Musharraf was quoted as having told the delegates: “I have asked my Ministers to say ‘Yes’ to all proposals from India. We want to settle the disputes because I do not want to go down in the history as a failed man. I will, Inshallah, resolve the issue during Comrade Surjeet’s and mine lifetime.”

Though Musharraf did not mention the ‘China Formula’, yet the Left parties of India and Pakistan believe that he would consider the proposal. They have propounded this formula on the basis of peaceful resolution of disputes between India and China that they have been advocating since the Chinese aggression against India in 1962.

The ‘China Formula’ of the Indo-Pak Left parties broadly has three salient features: -

  1. To maintain the status quo and to freeze the Kashmir dispute for a while,
  2. The condition of the Kashmir and cross border terrorism should be dropped, and
  3. Increase in the bilateral trade without reservations about trade deficit.

Though Pakistan had rejected to maintain the status quo, Musharraf is said to be considering it and may be ready to set aside the key Kashmir issue for a while on the lines of Indo-China negotiations.

When this correspondent asked a leader of the Politburo that in May 2004, Pakistan had rejected the idea of China model he told the South Asia Tribune: “Situations can change any moment and this has been realized by Pakistan as well. That was May 2004, this is March 2005.”

India and China have narrowed their differences over the alignment of the Line of Actual Control along the 545-km long stretch in the former’s central sector, covering the Himachal Pradesh and Uttar Pradesh boundaries with Tibet. The two sides had exchanged maps, giving their understanding of the LAC in the sector at the Expert Group meeting in November 2000.

The LAC is the line up to which troops of the two sides exercise effective control. It has not been demarcated. But the term was first used by then Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai, well before the 1962 war, in a letter written in 1959 to then Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru. The Chinese put forward the line as its understanding of the de facto positions on the two sides. Beijing claimed India and China did not have a delineated boundary, but there was a well-recognized LAC.

The LAC established after the 1962 war has remained more or less stable, but has not been demarcated. For nearly three decades after the war, India considered it an illegitimate line created through aggression. But, now, the confidence between the two countries is gradually increasing, and they are on their way to resolve all disputes without any aggression.

Now the two nations have moved further. During his visit to Beijing in May 2000, the then President, K.R. Narayanan, had told his Chinese hosts that India wants a settlement of the boundary dispute and this should not be left to the future generations. During his trip to Beijing in March 2002, the then Foreign Minister Jaswant Singh had agreed to launch highly sensitive negotiations on resolving the Sikkim question away from the media glare. The results are with us now.

Left parties of India and Pakistan have also agreed upon the second point also. During his meeting with Pak President, General Secretary Harkishan Singh Surjeet is believed to have said that Pakistan should drop the condition of ‘Kashmir first’, and similarly India should drop the condition of ‘End to cross-border terrorism first’.

According to the Left parties these issues cannot be a pre-condition for a dialogue. They may be the issue of discussion. Surjeet is reported to have said to the Pak President that he would convey the views of the Left parties to the Indian Prime Minister.

On trade issues the Left parties believed that trade deficit was a non-issue. When Pakistan can tolerate trade deficit with other countries, including the US, then why not with India. It was also observed that the trade deficit could be handled, but first let the trade begin.

It is believed that General Secretary Harkishan Singh Surjeet and AB Bardhan also held comprehensive talks with Abid Hasan Minto, Chief National Workers’ Party, Sufi Abdul Khaliq Baluch and Ejaz Ghani of the Communist Mazdoor Kissan Party to mobilize public opinion for peaceful solution of disputes, public to public contact, enhancement in trade activities, etc.

They also discussed the internal situation of Pakistan and shared their experience to cope with such situations and how to launch movements and agitations.

Re: Tis a sad day my fellow countrypeople…

MS

India’s hardliners are people like Shiv Sena who go on killing orgies of Muslims. They believe in an ideology or murder and extermination of minorities. Their words can’t even be taken seriously. They are the people who dishonored the Babri mosque and killed countless Muslims in Bombay and Gujrat.

And its more than clear who’s giving the sacrifice here, India or Pakistan. Pakistan has budged from our stance. What has India done? This is all propaganda.