Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
Realdeal
This statement still stands btw 
are your biases holding you back from accepting this
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
Now to address Irfan Husein’s lack of journalistic integrity 
THE Musharraf government’s proudest boast is that it has greatly reduced corruption in Pakistan. But this claim has been rudely shattered by the latest Transparency International (TI) report that shows that Pakistan, far from being cleaner today, is more corrupt than it was when the army took over in 1999.
lets contrast his statement with what TI has to say about the use of rankings.
here it is..again..straight form the guy who came up with this whole thing..
*http://wwwuser.gwdg.de/~uwvw/oldwebsite/Q&A.html
year-to-year comparisons of a country’s score do not only result from changing perceptions of a country’s performance
but
also from a changing sample and methodology.
Some sources are not updated and must be dropped as a result, while new, reliable sources are added.
With differing respondents and slightly differing methodologies **a change in a country’s score cannot be attributed solely to actual changes in a country’s performance. **
**Comparisons with the views collected in previous years can therefore be misleading. ** *
Now back to my statements…
I wondr why Irfan did not get a chance to read this? does this not sit well with his story? or does he not have internet connection? or maybe the dog ate his homework 
Irfan’s story contiues…
According to a report published a week ago, we are now 142nd out of 163 countries ranked by the international watchdog body. Seven years ago, when Musharraf seized power, Pakistan was ranked 87th. So, after years of being lectured by government spokesmen about how the army was cleansing the country, and hundreds of millions being spent on the National Accountability Bureau (NAB), we find that crooks are flourishing more than ever before.
he makes it sound like in 1998 pakistan was 87 out of 163
in 1999 we were 87 out of 99
Now its 142 out of 163
in 1996 we were 53 out of 54
in 1995 we were 39 out of 41
btw.. what is this ranking based on? one might ask…
sa1eem did note that but hre it goes again…its by polling businessmen and financial journalists around the world, and the authors accept that biases about a country can impact the survey.
so now when ppl come and claim ppl like myself who are out of teh country dont know anything…why is it that non pakistani journalists and businessmen know a whole lot more
and if we go by the statement that Pakistanis in Pakistan know the situation best..well that as another TI report which came up with what results??
let me refresh eevryone’s memory..
TI report that came out showed that 3.17% people believed that This regime was the most corrupt, versus 48.7 that thought benazir was most corrupt and 43.3% thought nawaz was the most corrupt.
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
how convenient, a random link in 1998 right before your dictator took charge.
The irrelevant link concerns the old TI reports(1998) when they worked with the Univeristy of Passau.This is no longer so.
If you think organisations use the same methdology for so many years, you need to stop spending so much time defending your dictator, and start spending some time in Pakistan instead of relying on the view of some random uncle or cousin.
You can sit thousands of miles away, spending your hours making posts telling people how ‘great’ things are outside their front door, but your not fooling anyone.
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
TheRealDeal nay farmaya
**how convenient, a random link in 1998 right before your dictator took charge. **
defintely better than a link that u posted of this journalist who could not even tell the story straight
**The irrelevant link concerns the old TI reports(1998) when they worked with the Univeristy of Passau.This is no longer so. **
Dr. Johann Graf Lambsdorff of the Economics Faculty, Göttingen University actually was the one who started the whole thing, and those were his words..but we will find something more recent to see what has changed ..
If you think organisations use the same methdology for so many years, you need to stop spending so much time defending your dictator, and start spending some time in Pakistan instead of relying on the view of some random uncle or cousin.
better than relying on some ‘journalist’ who did not even tell the full story
oh and btw while the methodolgy may have been tinkered with time to time…their statements of 2006 align very well with what i had said earlier..
so lets see what TI has to say about the 2006 study. shall we
so here goes, link and a few quotes
http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2006/faq#method7
*Year-to-year changes in a country’s score can either result from a changed perception of a country’s performance or from a change in the CPI’s sample and methodology. The only reliable way to compare a country’s score over time is to go back to individual survey sources, each of which can reflect a change in assessment. *
Making comparisons from one year to another is problematic, for the reasons highlighted above. However, to the extent that changes can be traced back to individual sources, trends can be cautiously identified
You can sit thousands of miles away, spending your hours making posts telling people how ‘great’ things are outside their front door, but your not fooling anyone.
and niether are you wth your attempts at spin however much you want to hide the facts. or however much journalistic dishonesty this Irfan dude wants to engage in.
oh yes, and if u doubt my motives and opinins since i am miles away, the poll u indicated is based on views of journalists and businessmen out of pakistan.
Pakistani ppl living in Pakistan did speak and they spoke loudly that this regime is way less corrupt than previous 2 regimes… let me remind you what Pakistani people living in pakistan had to say…the TI report that came out showed that 3.17% people believed that This regime was the most corrupt, versus 48.7 that thought benazir was most corrupt and 43.3% thought nawaz was the most corrupt.
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
these now honest politicains are called naib-zade (product of NAB).. they are held together by fear of NAB but fully free to do even more now under the boots of generals..
pick one department for people of pakistan where corruption have gone down.. police even more brutal.. courts more injustice.. land mafia at its boom.. state assets sold at will..
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
But you have take any polls with a liitle or a lot of salt. In general 'polls' coming out of a militarized state are not trustworthy at all since there is no way to assess how much of it is "information" management!
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
true, but those kids on this forum,living in USA/UK shouting that the dictator is so honest do so, not because it is the truth, but because they have personal reasons to support him.
As Degas says, ministries are more corrupt than they have ever been, an obvious outcome when Musharraf chooses the most corrupt people in Pakisatn like Chaudry Shujjat, but that is something these people will ignore.
Sitting thousands of miles away, their carefully selected ‘statistics’ give the image that Pakistan has become a first world state!
For them ground realities and obvious facts in Pakistan are irreleveant.
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
people who live with ground realties in pakistan stated that only 3.17% of them view this govt as the most corrupt, versus 43% thought nawaaz was most corrupt and 48% thought benazir was most corrupt.
They dinn intrview me, they polled Pakistanis living in Pakistan.
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
TRD just give up man, youre like Stallone making lame comebacks in rocky movies, even at 60!
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
nyah, stallone was atleast brilliant in the original...
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
They dinn intrview me, they polled Pakistanis living in Pakistan.
I am a Pakistani living in Pakistan in a well todo family involved in diverse businesses. My brother-in-law is in Textile business (owns a unit), my Khalo is in intending business (his own). One of my chacha is at the highest post in POL ( Pakistan Oil Fields -- not his own..:) .. one of my uncle has the oldest and one of the biggest grocery store... (his own --- dealing with hundreds of govt. departments, regarding food, quality, taxations etc). and the unanimous decission is that this is the most corrupt period... Now even the simplest of the things is not completed without corruption...
Now tell me when u have half of the ministers who were required by NAB in your cabinet.
When your PM is involved in not one but many huge scandals like Steel Mills, Stock Exchange Crash, Real Estate etc
When the president of the ruling party is involved in the biggest sugar scandal of the country's history
When the president himself admits that the money was taken for handing over the suspected peoples which went not into the Pakistan treasury but peoples account
and you expect that the corruption is decreasing..?
We got a huge huge chance to really take off when billions flowed into the Pakistan after 911 but we just wasted it due to the corruption..
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
I am not ‘expecting’ anything I am stating the findigs of TI when they surveyed ordinary Pakistanis living in Pakistan. 
u may want to tak to TI.
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
Now tell me when u have half of the ministers who were required by NAB in your cabinet. When your PM is involved in not one but many huge scandals like Steel Mills, Stock Exchange Crash, Real Estate etc When the president of the ruling party is involved in the biggest sugar scandal of the country's history When the president himself admits that the money was taken for handing over the suspected peoples which went not into the Pakistan treasury but peoples account and you expect that the corruption is decreasing..?
We got a huge huge chance to really take off when billions flowed into the Pakistan after 911 but we just wasted it due to the corruption..
Hopefully one day we can get a democratic govt representing the majority of the people, with a professional Army competent at its job.
But as you said the situation is so bad, corruption ruled by the Army boot with the most corrupt politcians as partners. The very reason so many people are not positive about the future of Pakistan as a country. :(
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
More anyalsis on the TI report…doubtlessly Mush supporters will come up with more excuses and spin
*** Battling corruption***
The report of the Transparency International on Corruption Perception index 2005, which is considered worldwide as an authentic and reliable survey, has exploded like a bombshell in Pakistan where the government has been claiming from roof tops that the cancer of endemic corruption has been brought under control. The findings of the TI report have convincingly debunked these claims.
According to the report, in 1999 Pakistan stood at number 87 among the corrupt countries of the world while in 2005 it jumped up to number 144 among 158 countries with various degrees of corruption ratings. Regretfully Pakistan is equal in corruption rating to countries like Kenya, Somalia and Sudan, while only nine countries including Nigeria, Haiti, Bangladesh and Chad are more corrupt than Pakistan.
According to the TI survey only four per cent of those surveyed expressed satisfaction over the government’s efforts to eliminate corruption. The police department was considered the most corrupt followed by taxation and registration departments.
This deplorable situation reflects very poorly on the performance of NAB, which was set up as a watchdog organisation to control corruption and nab corrupt elements in society. It has failed so far to prove high profile cases of corruption against former prime minister Benazir Bhutto and her husband Asif Ali Zardari under trial in national and international courts. This has irreparably damaged NAB’s credibility.
In another high profile corruption case, former navy chief Mansoorul Haq was released when he surrendered a certain amount to the government under a plea bargain. He is now a free man, which is a great injustice not only for the armed forces but the entire nation.
The TI report says the 2005 Index bears witness to the double burden of poverty and corruption borne by the world’s least developed countries. Corruption is a major cause of poverty as well as a barrier in overcoming these two scourges. Corruption must be vigorously addressed if foreign aid is to make a real difference in freeing people from poverty.
Despite progress on many fronts, including the imminent entry into force of the United Nations Convention against Corruption, seventy countries – nearly half of those included in the index – scored less than three on the CPI, indicating a severe corruption problem among the countries included in the index, corruption is perceived as most rampant in Chad, Bangladesh, Turkmenistan, Myanmar and Haiti – which are among the poorest countries in the world.
The report says, extensive research shows that foreign investment is lower in countries perceived to be corrupt, which further thwarts their chance to prosper. When countries improve governance and reduce corruption, they reap a ‘development dividend’ that, according to the World Bank Institute, can include improved child mortality rates, higher per capita income and greater literacy.
Corruption isn’t a natural disaster: it is a cold, calculated theft of opportunity from men, women and children who are least able to protect themselves. Leaders must go beyond lip service and make good on their promises to provide the commitment and resources to improve governance, transparency and accountability.
The report further says wealth is not a prerequisite for successful control of corruption. A new long-term analysis of the CPI carried out by Dr Johann Graf Lambsdorff shows that the perception of corruption has decreased significantly in lower-income countries such as Estonia, Colombia and Bulgaria over the past decade. In the case of higher-income countries such as Canada and Ireland, however, there has been a marked increase in the perception of corruption over the past ten years, showing that even wealthy countries must work to maintain a climate of integrity.
Transparency International has urged the following actions to curb corruption:
By lower-income countries;
-
Increasing resources and political will for anti-corruption efforts.
-
Enabling greater public access to information about budgets, revenue and expenditure.
By higher-income countries;
-
Combining increased aid with support for recipient-led reforms.
-
Reducing tied aid, which limits local opportunities and ownership of aid programmes.
By all countries;
-
Promoting strong coordination among governments, the private sector and civil society to increase efficiency and sustainability in anti-corruption and good governance efforts.
-
Ratifying, implement and monitor existing anti-corruption conventions in all countries to establish international norms. These include the UN Convention against Corruption, the OECD Anti-bribery Convention and the regional conventions of the African Union and the Organisation of American States.
Pakistan urgently needs to implement the recommendations of Transparency International to eliminate corruption. Some high-profile scams such as the privatisation of Pakistan Steel, the stock market crash, windfall profits earned by oil cartels due to government’s wrong policies need to be addressed immediately.
It is highly regrettable that an Islamic nation which claims to believe in the teachings of the Holy Quran and the Prophet (PBUH) is in the quagmire of this evil. The government and the media should launch a vigorous campaign against corruption in the light of Islamic teachings.
The writer is a former director of PTV
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
More Pakistani’s commenting on govt corruption
Eliminating corruption
THIS refers to Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz’s speech at a function organised by the National Accountability Bureau to mark the third International Anti-corruption Day (Dec 10). He identified the causes of corruption and went on to detail that the government had evolved multilateral framework to curb the menace of corruption and spelt out several essential ingredients of the strategy.
The speech was well delivered for public consumption. The facts are quite different. It is a fact that corruption starts at the top. Below are some examples of institutionalised corruption and corrupt practices:
a. Look at the size of cabinet the PM is heading -– 70 + minister advisers (some of them known loan defaulters, turncoats, etc) with massive perks and privileges (the Quaid-i-Azam had six ministers).
b. Frequent foreign trips by the president, PM and ministers with planeload of camp followers, free loaders, etc, involving huge expenses.
c. Ghost schools, ghost teachers and ghost doctors flourishing, of which ghosts are not the beneficiaries but the feudal lords/zamindars and bureaucrats in collusion are the real beneficiaries. Thus, education funds are embezzled.
d. Bonded labour camps, private jails and private armies exist. Feudal lords have enslaved the poor people in their areas. Funds for poverty elimination and benefits of economic turn-around do not reach the poor but are pocketed by the vested interests.
e. Several mafias have emerged. Industrialists have formed the cartels and selling products at their prices/terms and conditions. The sugar price scam is an example. The government is unable to control retail mafia who are fleecing customers.
f. Banks are writing off loans worth billions of rupees of rich influential persons/industrialists. This is amounts to loot and plunder.
These high-profile corrupt people are known to government but due to political expediency the government needs them to stay in power.
Mere rhetoric by high-ups cannot end corruption. A political will of a truly democratic government could only end corruption.
ABDUL SAMAD KHAN
Karachi
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
resorting to posting links to "letters to the editor now"
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
so the opinion of the people of Pakistan don't count?
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
same stuff again. the TI perceptions is based on percpetions of outsiders, foriegn businessmen and journalists. There has been no real change in pakistan’s perceived corruption level and it has stayed under 3. This journalist again commits journalistic dishonesty by listing that Pakistan was 87 but not listing out of ow many, making simpletns beleive that Paakistan was 87 out of 158.
I guess journalists in Pakistan have not realized that information is easily accessible and their dishonest ommissions, additions and spins would only work on those who either are tooo thick to realize the facts or do not have access to the internet.
TI also notes that scores move up and down not just because of the ‘perceived’ coruuption, but also because of change in samples and changes in approaches, and thus saying that a country is more or less corrupt from period to period is tough.
Now lets talk about the other poll, which you posted all over until it was made clear that it was showing that Pakistanis in Pakistan considered thsi govt to be many tims less corrupt than nawaz or benazir.
The other poll that was taken of Pakistanis indicated that 3.17% thought Musharraf was corrupt versus 48% who thought benazir was corrupt and 43% who thought nawaz was corrupt.
Sa1eem, haris, myself and spock etc have addressed this many times before but I guess some just cant understand.
I might as well do a copy and paste of the entire explanation from the last few times
Re: TI report-Corruption has increased since 99 coup
Oh it does it does so much. I think it counts more than the opinion of overseas businessmen and journalists. which is the study you are referring to now which is being used and read incorrecty anyways.
as far as the opinion of people of Pakistan…
the people of pakistan spoke clearly and loudly when only 3.17% of them thought musharraf regime was corrupt versus 48% who thought that benazir was corrupt and 43% who thought nawaz was corrupt