Three-time divorce

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

This is kindof stupid. They divorced each other three times, but according to the article - “Under Muslim law, they cannot marry for a fourth time unless Abu Sami’s wife has wed a different man first.” Shouldn’t that have applied EACH time they got a divorce? What i mean is that - after the first time they got divorced, shouldn’t they have had to marry someone else before being allowed to get back together ? Isn’t that how it works under Islamic law/Shariat? Maybe Jordanian law is different…that’s kindof stupid for a Muslim country not to have your divorce laws in sync with Islamic law.

Wife’s phone bills spell divorce, BBC, 2 June 2004

A Jordanian man has divorced his wife for the third time because she spent hours talking on the telephone.

The man, named as Abu Sami, accused his wife of ruining him financially by running up bills three times the size of his salary, Petra news agency said.

The couple had divorced twice before over the wife’s use of the phone, but were persuaded to get back together.

Under Muslim law, they cannot marry for a fourth time unless Abu Sami’s wife has wed a different man first.

“My wife would talk on the phone for hours with her sisters and girlfriends to discuss recipes, clothes and the latest fashion and I used to pay the monthly bill without complaint,” Petra quoted Abu Sami, from Zerqa, as saying.

He said the final straw came when his wife began using the family telephone line to make international calls to take part in Arab satellite channel competitions.

“The phone bills represented threefold my salary,” Abu Sami said, saying this led to his first divorce.

The couple’s families and friends pressured them to get back together, but the second marriage collapsed when the wife used the telephone to excess again.

They divorced, then remarried for a second time, but the wife carried on her expensive habit.

Petra said Abu Sami has now divorced his wife for a third and final time.

2

Thats funny actually in a not so funny way. I know that in order for a divorce to be completed the word talaaq has to be uttered three times. If the guy only says it once there is still a chance of reconciliation and getting back together. Actually it is recommended that the three talaaqs be given at different times so both parties get to think over the matter with a calm head hence chances of them getting back togther. So if the guy followed this practise and gave the 3 talaqs after inervals then the third is considered final that brings an end to the nikkah and you cannot remarry eachother unless the woman has married another man and the marraige was consumated.
On the other hand if it happened as it appears from the text quoted...the man remarried her 3 times after divorcing her and cannot marry her for the fourth time unless she marries someone else, then it really beats me. I think they just stated it confusingly.

3

They are using the terms divorce and marriage in a very loose manner. Not sure which exact fiqh they follow where Mr Abu Sami, because divorce laws vary amongst different schools of thought... but in my understanding what they are referring to is that a divorce is not final until the husband communicates it to the wife in three separate occassions.

Saying "I divorce you" once, or thrice or 100 times in one meeting is considered as one divorce from an Islamic jurisprudence viewpoint (depending on which fiqh we are talking about, ofcourse). The couple can still reconcile and get back together, and the divorce is cancelled. But if the husband repeats this two more times without a reconciliation in between, then the divorce is final after the third time. Then the husband and wife can no longer have marital relationships.

Now, after the divorce is final, then the husband and wife can not re-marry each other. In order to emphasize that divorce is serious business and should not be taken lightly (getting divorced and remarrying again and again), the rule is that the divorced woman has to remarry another man, have marital relations with him and then he divorces her out of his own free-will, then, and only then, she can remarry her first husband.

The above is just a simple explanation for the process. I will try to find online resources on the issue of divorce; or may be some other members will help you out. I will again emphasize that the rulings over divorce vary betweeen fiqhs, so if someone comes in and says saying "I divorce you" thrice in one setting constitutes a valid divorce, I won't dispute it either. There is a difference of opinion on this issue.

4

Divorce laws vary amongst different schools of thought:

**Sunnies (esp. Fiqh e Hanfiya) **
Saying “I divorce you” thrice in one meeting is considered as three divorce even without any witness.

Shia (Fiqh e Jafferiya)
Saying “I divorce you” once, or thrice or 100 times in one meeting in the presence of two witnesses is considered as one divorce. and there is specific time in between two Talaaqs.

Many countries are now understanding it and changing their Shariya law according to Fiqh Jafferiaya in this case like Pakistan.

NOTE: This is not a sectarian issue. Please follow the
Moratorium

5

Just to clear up the terminologies a bit.. lets say a husband gives the first divorce, but the couple sorts out the difference and go back to being a big happy family, its called "reconciliation" (thereby the divorce is cancelled). Its not called "remarrying" your wife. If it is, in some parts of the world, then this is the first time I have heard it.

6

ohhhhhhh… i was interpreting this wrongly.

When i read the first line from the article (A Jordanian man has divorced his wife for the third time…), i assumed for some stupid reason that that meant they had actually gotten divorced COMPLETELY, on three separate occasions. Meaning, the husband has said the word “talaaq” 9 times in total. So they are legally divorced three times and legally remarried three times.

Okay :smack: Now i get it. He just said the “talaaq” word once, then they reconciled, then the wife ran up phone bills again, then repeat this situation twice - and now he won’t be able to reconcile unless she marries someone else, consummates the marriage, then he divorces her, then they can remarry.

sigh Okay! Now i got it.

Femme Fatale, Faisal Bhai, and Inuit - Thank you.

7

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by inuit: *
**Divorce laws vary amongst different schools of thought:*

*Sunnies (esp. Fiqh e Hanfiya) *
Saying "I divorce you" thrice in one meeting is considered as three divorce even without any witness.

[/QUOTE]

Minor correction.. its ONLY the hanafis who follow this, incorrect to generalize this as a belief of Ahlus Sunnah.

8

Nadia I think its BBC to blame here, who have posted an erroneous statement without investigating as to whether they were married 3 times, or just went through a reconciliation for their sole marriage.

Under Muslim law, they cannot marry for a fourth time unless Abu Sami's wife has wed a different man first.

To a normal person, this implies that they had gotten divorced, and then remarried thrice already, which is clearly not the case, only if BBC had taken the time to find out.

9

Can the wife initiate the divorce?

10

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Toddytapper: *
Can the wife initiate the divorce?
[/QUOTE]

from what I know, yes, she can. it is known as getting/taking a khula'a. but hopefully someone else can come in and confirm this.

unfortunately though in Pakistan on most Nikahnamas apparently this right is scratched out before the signatures, hence depriving the girl of this right of hers.

11

Well, Khula is one thing, divorce is another. If at the time of Nikkah, the husband gives the right of divorce to his wife, then she can exercise it at any time, much like men do. In both cases, the couple will end up being separated, however in the case of khula, the wife leaves the husband and gives up all rights to alimony and has to leave the wedding gifts behind. In case of divorce, she gets to keep both these rights.

ps. Again this is specific to Pakistan's islamic jursiprudence. Other fiqh's may have different interpretations.

12

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Toddytapper: *
Can the wife initiate the divorce?
[/QUOTE]
Translation of part of Nikkah Nama (Pakistan)

Form No. 2
(see Rule no. 8, 10)
Nikah Nama TRUE COPY

  1. Whether the husband has delegated the power of divorce to the wife. If so, under what conditions.

  2. Whether the husband’s right of divorce is in any way curtailed.

13

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Well, Khula is one thing, divorce is another. If at the time of Nikkah, the husband gives the right of divorce to his wife, then she can exercise it at any time, much like men do. In both cases, the couple will end up being separated, however in the case of khula, the wife leaves the husband and gives up all rights to alimony and has to leave the wedding gifts behind. In case of divorce, she gets to keep both these rights.
[/QUOTE]

ahan. makes sense. thanks. so, guess that means it is the right to divorce that is generally taken away in Pakistan. you always have the right to get khulaa?

also, from your post it seems like the husband has the right to give or take the right of talaq from his wife. is it really so or did I misread your post? I thought women had the right just like men do and men take it away not because they have some religious authority to do so but simply because they can in Pakistan.

14

By default the right of divorce is with husbands. They can give it to their wife at the time of nikkah. Not sure if wife can request the right to divorce at a later time as well. With mutual consent, I guess it would be doable.

So basically, its not a right thats taken away, rather its something thats given. If the woman did not bother to request the right of divorce, then she still has the right to get khulaa. Although, I briefly mentioned the differences already.

15

Not only wife; Husband (or wife) can give this right to anybody else also. it depends on the agreement of Nikkah. or whoever has the right.