Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

Tribals gone wild!

But seriously, they just can’t let a day go by these days without killing someone or another. And some want people of this caliber to rule Pakistan.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\09\22\story_22-9-2007_pg7_5

Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

Staff Report

WANA: Three militants were killed and two others including a woman injured when two groups of Taliban clashed in South Waziristan on Friday, security sources and tribal elders said.

“Maulvi Nazir’s men raided a house in the Zari Noor area, four kilometres west of Wana, following a tip-off about the presence of a pro-Uzbek commander and a shootout started,” the security sources told Daily Times. They said that among the three killed were Nizamuddin, brother of pro-Uzbek commander Rafiuddin, and his cousin, adding that it was not clear whether Rafiuddin was present in the house at the time of the attack.

Meanwhile, two tribal policemen were killed when they opened fire on each other in Wana Bazaar after a quarrel, a junior government official said asking not to be named.

**In Mohmand Agency, five people were killed when their car was hit with a rocket near Qilla Ghai. **A tribal elder in Ghalanai said the killed persons were suspected to be car-snatchers. Assistant Political Agent Syed Ahmed Jan backed the elder’s claim. It is not clear who targeted the alleged criminals.

2

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

Thats good news... Let the taliban rats kill themselves off, save others the trouble.

3

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

Seems to be a replay of MQM(A) and MQM(H) conflict-pattern in 1990s when both were at each others throat and shed a lot of blood to add to the image of Karachi as an "urban jungle".

4

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

In that case MQM-H was an ISI/Jihadi outfit, but in this case, both sides are!

~*~ Tag me! ~*~
5

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

As long as the "docile peasantry" of the "plains" would be "herded" by lords and landlords, there would never be democracy, never freedom, and consequently never a rise in meduim IQ.

Anyhow, the actual problem lies somewhere in the proximity of Islamabad i.e. the "abode of Islam"...Where Zia-ul-Haq, the amir-ul-momineen, once roared with full Islamic ferver...

6

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

Today this "islamic" fervor is centered around Miramshah and Mirali, not the "plains". While the lords and landlords have always been a problem in Pakistan, the biggest threat is clearly from the regions west of the Indus. Your inability to see this speaks to your very obvious bias.

7

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

And whats the actual problem in your estimation?

8

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

Tribal Pashtun “unity” on display.

9 dead in Pakistan’s tribal area clash
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-09/24/content_6780231.htm

Surname Change.
9

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

Our dear General Aslam Beg says both MQM and Jehadis were the creation of mard-i-momin General Zia-ul-Haq…the motive in MQM formation being the countering of Sindh-based PPP and Karachi-based JI…

“WASHINGTON: General Mirza Aslam Beg, former chief of army staff, has said that General Zia-ul-Haq was responsible for the formation of the Muttahida Qaumi Movement, as he wanted to counter the opposition his regime faced in Sindh. Dr Imran Farooq of the MQM has denied the claim.”

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\05\27\story_27-5-2007_pg7_7

10

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

Ya, like the proverbial “Pakistabi unity” and “Muslim unity” (on which Pakistani nationhood is based) glimpses of which we saw on many ocassions and in many places e.g. 1971, Karachi, Baluchistan, Northen Areas, Sipah-i-Sahaba, and Sipah-i-Mohammad, etc…

Man conflict and harmony is an integral part of group-dynamics…In case of Pashtuns, the binding factors are far greater…

Aaj Kiss Baat Par Gussa Aaya ??????
11

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

Of course but the god-fathers, nerve-centers, ideological/inspirational bases, and lever of control are somewhere else ...where are Jaish-i-Mohammad, Lashkar-i-Taiba, Lashkar-i-Jhangvi, Sipah-i-Sahaba, etc. by the way...Have they been told to lay low till the time when NATO/US is expelled from Afghanistan and to be active again to liberate Kashmir...?

Would your biase ever let you admit that the prophets of the ideologies of hate/subversion/bigotary like Deobandiath, Bareliath, Tabligh, Tanzim-i-Islami, Sipah-i-Sahaba, etc. have their origin in Gangetic plains, in its very heart ...? Ours was a simple tribal rural society until we were knotted with "Indic Muslim" brothern in a nationhood...Look how many of our kind ruled Hindustan but never imposed a theocracy...But Sayed Ahamd Barelvi, Mullah Mahmudul Hassan, Maududi, etc. came to our area with theocratic intentions...

12

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

It all depends on the powers...I will give you many examples...When Sayed Ahmad Barelvi came to our area, he was welcome as an ally against Sikhs but the moment he tried to impose theocracy he was kicked out...Similarly, when "Hindustani Mujahideen" came to our area to wage Jahad against British, Pashtuns didn't accept their ideology or goal..and till last they were a fringe group isolated and ultimately becoming extinct...Similarly, the Raishami Romal Tahrik in Deoband never found following in our masses despite its efforts and couldn't convert our areas into Darul Jehad...

The reasons were that British never approve of Jahad...and the political, tribal, and national leaders of Pashtuns saw to it that our area isn't used for a foreign ideology and motives...In case of the present Jahadi movements, the Pakistani state has/had stake and motives...i.e. how to exterminate Pashtun nationalism and Afghan identity and replace it with a Pakistan-centeric Islamic identity, how to expand Pakistan's zone of influence, how to gain strategic depth vis-a-vis India, how to establish and use Jahadi camps in FATA and Afghanistan for liberating Kashmir, etc. So it was in the interest of Pakistani state to patronize Jeahd and Jahadis and it exactly did that...

This is not to say that Pashtuns didn't fought foreigners but those wars were for our own tribal freedom and not for utopian ideas like ideological state, Muslim Ummah, Kashmir, Khalafath, theocracy, etc. Of course, we had Faqir of Ipi and Mullah Powinda, etc. but their objectives were never theocracies...they just wanted to maintain their own freedom vis-a-vis British...Hi-fi and sophisticated ideas like ideological state, fortress of Islam, Muslim Ummah, etc. alll were ideas conceived somewhere else and imported into our area...

Before 2001, Wana had a flourishing local market...Tribal labourers had brought money from Gulf and invested that in land-development..Consequently, 200 to 250 trucks of fruit were exported daily from Waziristan to fruit/vegetables markets in Punjab...But then in 2001/2002 when Al-Qaueda and Taleban had to flee Afghanistan, and TORA BORA, ISI and Pakistani establishment helped them to relocate to Waziristan because the area was remote, inaccessible and could be used to wage a low-intensity war in Afghanistan against ISAF force...To enable Taleban/AL-Qaueda leadership to manipulate/control masses, more than 150 tribal maliks/elders were killed with full connivance of ISI...The same had been done in Afghanistan where secular Pashtun leadership had been exterminated or terrorised into fleeing or immigrating to foreign countries in order to prepare ground for Taleban leadership to take over and to eliminate spectre of Pashtun nationalism once for all...

13

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

Moreover, Afghanistan and our area were the ground for war between communism and the west and a political-power vacuum had been created which due to foregin support was filled by Taleban...There are also other reason like economic factor, soial change, disintegration of old aggrarian, rural, and tribal social order, etc.

Propaganda has its effect...look at Urdu newspapers and electronic media or books of Mutalia Pakistan...how have these impacted the views of Pakistanis...

14

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

Aslam Beg has become senile like his pal Hamid Gul, I wouldn’t rest my arguments on their statements.

~Congratulation bhaand~
15

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan


So your entire argument is that Pashtuns and Afghans are the stupidest people on the face of the planet who can get conned into destroying themselves by the Soviets, the Americans, the Arabs, the Iranians and the Pakistanis, one after another? Way to step up and take responsibility for ones actions. What army did Barelvi and Maududi bring with them to subjugate the Pashtuns? If the power of thought is enough to turn entire Pashtun society on its head, something is wrong with that society to begin with. Learn to take responsibility for your own actions.

Not only do you not know about the difference in madrassahs in Deoband, India and in Akora Khattak, Pakistan, you also can't seem to see how Pashtun (and also much of rest of Pakistani) society has become completely radicalized from top to bottom. Initiated by Zia but sustained by the tribals to a large degree, the jihadist mentality is more entrenched in tribal areas than in any other place in Pakistan.

16

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

:hehe: That’s his entire argument.

17

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

And this argument is but a drop of water…When I find some spare moments and I will tell you how…But let me ask you one question…Why are our Muslim brethern to the east of Indus mostly so shallow?

P.S. : By the way on most of the issues we, I and Kehkashan Bhai have convergent views…Only on a few matters do we disagree…

18

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

OK, using your argument, can I ask that "is the invasion of Hindustan by inumerable hordes both from north and south throughout the recorded history causing the mass- kiliing of Hindustanis like "stick-insects" linked to any inherent stupidity or any other flaw in the Hindustani character (despite their docile submission)?

Extending the argument, what was it that caused British to attack Afghanistan three times in 19th Century (First Afghan War, Second Afghan War, Third Afghan War), or Nadir Shah Irani (18th Century) or Babur (15th Century) or Amir Taimur (1398), or Changiz Khan (13th Century) before that...not to mention that the voilent attacks of these "invaders" caused more devastation in Hindustan than on Pashtun Land?

I will proceed when you would answer this question.

19

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

What do you want me to answer that history has already not answered?

20

Re: Three killed as two Taliban groups clash in Waziristan

Not too distant by the way...British left in 1947...and during the 100 years that they ruled, about 400 millions Hindustanis died according to an estimate due to circumstances caused by colonialism (not to mention the humuliation they were subjected to)...

In addition to frequency of the attacks, take into account the length of time (starting from Aryan invasion) also ...

But the basic question is still there ... Was it the stupidity of Hindustanis?

Nevertheless, historical analysis is not done just based on limited view of history (historical parochialism)...the overall picture that emerges from full-range of historical timeline...global view not local...consider the grove don't count the (individual) trees ...