TRANSCRIPT OF HANNITY & COLMES
FOX NEWS NETWORK
September 18, 2002 Wednesday / The Show was at 9:00PM
GUESTS: Pat Robertson
HOSTS: Sean Hannity, Alan Colmes
COLMES: I'm Alan Colmes. We're back on HANNITY & COLMES.
Coming up tonight, why is one prison in California denying black inmates their right to have visitors? Is this discrimination veiled in the guise of security? We'll debate that. First, joining us now, the chairman and founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network, the Reverend Pat Robertson.
Reverend Robertson, always good to have you on the program.
PAT ROBERTSON, CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING NETWORK: Hey, it's a pleasure as usual.
All right, sir. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops president, William Gregory, said yesterday that it would be difficult to justify preemptive attack under Roman Catholic teachings on warfare. Where do you stand on that?
ROBERTSON: I would tell the good bishop to read the book of Habakkuk in the old Testament and see what it says about those who kill and pillage and rape and hurt innocent people, that the judgment of the Lord needs to come on them. And you know, with Saddam Hussein, 500,000 innocent Iranians killed, 5,000 to 6,000 Kurds gassed. Who knows how many Shi'ite Muslims and
how many of his enemies? He actually boils them in oil. This man is a horrible monster. And...
COLMES: You know, nobody denies that. Nobody is saying they love Saddam Hussein. The question is, what is proper? What is just? Should the United States take a preemptive strike? And does that violate Christian teaching for the United States to be the one to decide we're going after this guy?
ROBERTSON: Well, somebody has got to enforce this. You know, we've been spending a billion dollars a year on that no-fly zone over there every year since the Gulf War. And we went in to help the innocent. We went in to help the oppressed, the Kuwaitis. And now others are being oppressed. And the bible says to lift the yoke of oppression from those who would hurt the innocent and the non-combatants, if you will.
COLMES: You've come on this show many times. We've talked about members of the religion of Islam on this rogram, your view of people of that religion. And you have often said that not enough have spoken out about the atrocity of September 11. And I want to show you the statement of the Study of Islam and Democracy, signed on by dozens and dozens of individuals and groups where they said, "We wish again to state unequivocally that neither the al-Qaeda organization nor Usama bin Laden represents Islam or reflects Muslim beliefs and practice. Rather, groups like al-Qaeda have misused and abused Islam in order to fit their own radical and indeed anti-Islamic agenda." And this is again signatories all over the place, dozens. They speak for mainstream Muslims in America and worldwide.
ROBERTSON: You know, I hate to tell you, Alan, but that is absolute falsehood, not on your part, but on the part of those who signed it. All you have to do is read the writings of Mohammed in the Koran. He urges people to attack the infidels. He urges his followers to kill Christians and Jews. He talks about eradicating all of the Jews.
This man was an absolute wild-eyed fanatic. He was a robber and a brigand. And to say that these terrorists distort Islam, they're carrying out Islam.
HANNITY: Reverend, how widespread do you think that fanatical interpretation is? Do you think it's mainstream? Or do you think it's the majority of Muslims?
ROBERTSON: I think there are many Muslims, just like there are many Catholics and there are many Jews and there are many Protestants, that don't really understand what their religion believes.
And they go along. And they're just kind of easy to get along with folks.
But I think that in the Muslim world, you look at where the terror is, you look at where the dictators are, you look at where the oppression is, and it's all in the Muslim world. And I think specially with Saudi Arabia and Syria and Iran, there is a typical Muslim state. That's a Muslim theocracy.
HANNITY: Yes.
ROBERTSON: And look what the Taliban did in Afghanistan. I mean, these people were carrying out fundamental Muslim teaching.
HANNITY: So Islam is a threat bigger than what most people are willing to say publicly?
ROBERTSON: I don't think there's any question about it. And I think the sooner we confront the enemy and say look, this is the teaching these people. You know, I majored in history in college. And we learned about jihad. Mohammed declared jihad against the infidels and he carried that thing all the way up to Bordeaux in Spain and the Ottomans, were all the way up to Hungary on the other side of Europe.
HANNITY: What is that -- what do mainstream Muslims to think when they hear what you're saying? Is it that -- I mean, because you're going right to the heart and soul of their religion. And you're saying it's predicated on these things, take neither Christians and Jews for your friends. You talk about jihad, holy war. Some people have argued on this program no, no, that's not interpreted correctly. What -- I mean, it's a pretty direct frontal attack against them. What are they to think when they hear that?
ROBERTSON: All I would say, if you read the teachings of Jesus, he talks about peace. He talks about love your enemies. He talks about do good to them that persecute you. You read the Koran, it says wage war against your enemies. Kill them if you possibly can. And destroy any body who doesn't agree with you.
I mean, it's all laid out in the Koran. And what is called the hadith,
the -- you know, interpretation of what Mohammed said, that this whole thing is in my opinion, is a monumental scam, if you really understand what went on back there in the early days of Mohammed.
HANNITY: Do you think it's inevitable, then, that the world is going to be in conflict, perhaps even at war, with Islam for many decades to come?
ROBERTSON: Unless our government and the leaders recognize the threat, the answer is absolutely yes. And when you see what's done to Christians in Indonesia, for example, when you see the persecution in Saudi Arabia.
Here you look at Sudan. They killed two million plus Christians because of Shiria. In Nigeria right now, they're getting ready to stone a woman to death for adultery. And it just goes on and on and on, the list of horror.
COLMES: We're going to take a quick break.
ROBERTSON: Yes.
COLMES: I want to talk to you about your statement that "Islam is a sham" when we get back. More with Pat Robertson after this.
Later, since that brutal attack on three prison guards in August, black inmates in a California prison are being punished. Is this a blatant case of racial profiling? That's ahead on HANNITY & COLMES tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: Still to come, a brutal attack in California in a prison leads to a crackdown on some of the inmates. But why are some people screaming racism? We'll debate that. We'll tell you about it.
First, we continue with the Reverend Pat Robertson.
Reverend, look, I hate to even say this, I don't want to even think this, but I'm really coming to the conclusion that Tom Daschle and some of the Democrats seem not to have learned a lot from September 11. There is this desire, this gullibility. They're just gullible as -- they want to believe Saddam Hussein after 12 years of lie after lie after lie. And I think that lack of wisdom makes this country vulnerable and susceptible because it allows him, buys him time to get his weapons of mass destruction.
ROBERTSON: You know, Sean, he has violated seven clear-cut resolutions of the United Nations Security Council. Not one, not two, not three, but seven of them. Not to mention the additional internal discussions along the way. He stiffed the inspectors every time. He has prevented them from discovering these weapons of mass destruction. He has an estimated 600 tons of deadly gases and biological chemical agents. Who knows how much nuclear material he's got? The Ukrainians are talking about missing 200 nuclear devices. And if they fell into his hands, we may be in deadly peril from this man. He's a madman.
HANNITY: But the left doesn't get that. They want one more chance. We've got to try to allow the inspectors in. One more time. All it does is buy him time to seek new weapons of mass destruction, allows himself to create alliances with terror groups. And if he ever gets them, he may not have the means of launching them from here, but he certainly can get them to Israel.
And he certainly perhaps can get across our borders if he has, you know, alliance with a terrorist organization. They don't get it. They don't get it. They didn't get it when Reagan was fighting the Cold War. They want to abolish the CIA. The left in America doesn't get it.
ROBERTSON: Well, I've read books recently. And I'm sure you have too that go back in the history. And your own book pointed it out, some of the terrible failings of our intelligence. There's a book just out about the intelligence breakdown...
HANNITY: Yes.
hehe: