[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kosser_M: *
Topic:Those against an attack on Iraq must do more than shake their heads at the television
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kosser
and I was staying on the topic when i asked what your group was doing, and suggested that you guys may want to partner up with some other groups to get the advantage of numbers and get some momentum going.
I completely agree that one should do more than shake their head at the TV. for that purpose I also suggest that HT try to reach out to non muslims as well, and this could eb done by various means..the focus on a small group within UK or US is a start but the arguments against the war must be made available to the masses at large, since there are organizations which are already doing it and have some expereince in this arena it would serve your purpose to work with them.
The regimes in middle east will eventually go along with what US wants, to change their handling of this the work needs to be done in US/UK etc, and to do that you have to reach out to general population. thus a strategic alliance with anti-war groups will be a logical and smart move.
passing out brochures at some mosques or writing open letters to mid-east govts or to write tons of articles in websites or publications that a small minority may read does little more than what soemone shaking their head at the Tv does.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
If you weren't so closed minded and rigid about your belief system, you would see that Mr. Fraudia was offering sensible and pragmatic answers to your post.
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As I have said many times if you want to start an anti HT post or anti Islam post start it! what's your problem?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
kosser
and I was staying on the topic when i asked what your group was doing, and suggested that you guys may want to partner up with some other groups to get the advantage of numbers and get some momentum going.
I completely agree that one should do more than shake their head at the TV. for that purpose I also suggest that HT try to reach out to non muslims as well, and this could eb done by various means..the focus on a small group within UK or US is a start but the arguments against the war must be made available to the masses at large, since there are organizations which are already doing it and have some expereince in this arena it would serve your purpose to work with them.
The regimes in middle east will eventually go along with what US wants, to change their handling of this the work needs to be done in US/UK etc, and to do that you have to reach out to general population. thus a strategic alliance with anti-war groups will be a logical and smart move.
passing out brochures at some mosques or writing open letters to mid-east govts or to write tons of articles in websites or publications that a small minority may read does little more than what soemone shaking their head at the Tv does.
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HT works with the entire Ummah to liberate the world from kufr and to protect the honour and dignity of Islam & the Muslims. What would be the point to go to US embassies or British embassies when they are the ones who want to cut your throat? We as Muslims should put pressure on the Muslim embassies and their puppet rulers. And work within the Ummah for true Islamic revival. The public opinion we want to create is mainly aimed at Muslim lands & Muslim communities as this is where it will have more of an effect.
dude
lets accept your argument that all these regimes are puppet regimes. If that is the case, what is their motivation to listen to what some expats of their country are saying? they are not present in teh country to create an actual problem. Life goes on..they would nto care.
If theya re the puppets, then they only do what the puppet master asks them to do, so you have to focus on convincing the puppet master to not attack. Luckily the puppet masters in your examples are countries where the public has a voice and a say, and thus you can join in the anti war efforts.
I am not trying to put you down here but rhetoric is useful only to a small extent, there has to be a solid plan to intelligently try to affect the future decisions. if the "puppets" are not making the decisions, what good would it be to spend your efforts on trying to convince them.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
dude
lets accept your argument that all these regimes are puppet regimes. If that is the case, what is their motivation to listen to what some expats of their country are saying? they are not present in teh country to create an actual problem. Life goes on..they would nto care.
If theya re the puppets, then they only do what the puppet master asks them to do, so you have to focus on convincing the puppet master to not attack. Luckily the puppet masters in your examples are countries where the public has a voice and a say, and thus you can join in the anti war efforts.
I am not trying to put you down here but rhetoric is useful only to a small extent, there has to be a solid plan to intelligently try to affect the future decisions. if the "puppets" are not making the decisions, what good would it be to spend your efforts on trying to convince them.
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Rhetoric?? Please, you are saying go to shaytaan to ask him to save you from the fire! If these puppets were independent and had full control and adhered to Islam do you think America & her cronies would even get close to Iraq? Also it is haram to ask the enemies for help.
Kosser: Do you know what would happen if Indonesia or any other muslim country exist the IMF IOU's? Explain to me before I explain it to you.
Originally posted by Kosser_M: *
**Rhetoric?? Please, you are saying go to shaytaan to ask him to save you from the fire! *
what marvellous jumps of imagination. why can you not try to impact the foriegn policy of a country? thats called lobbying and its ultimately much more powerful than passing leaflets to a sub-group of a sub-group that one belongs to or writing volumes upon volumes of stuff on websites that no one visits.
once again, if i let you get away with your analogy of shaitaan (satan), then the regimes in mideast are shaitaan kay chamchay (satan's folowers) so whether u try to influence the head honcho or his cronies, it dunn matter.
and yes...rhetoric..
*If these puppets were independent and had full control and adhered to Islam do you think America & her cronies would even get close to Iraq? *
"if" but they are not independent, the economies and politics of every single country in the world is tied to many international factors. again, what use is it to
*Also it is haram to ask the enemies for help. *
what is your definition of enemy. a run of the mill average joe is not anyone's enemy. additionally you are being asked to partner up with other anti-war groups, and cooeration and partnering with other groups is not haram..the various pacts and agreements that the prophet had with non muslims prove that.
anyways, do what u want.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
If you weren't so closed minded and rigid about your belief system, you would see that Mr. Fraudia was offering sensible and pragmatic answers to your post.
[/QUOTE]
Seminole
sensible and pragmatic after reading your pro israeli and antimuslim posts i would hardly call you sensible or pragmatic!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by IvanDrago: *
Seminole
sensible and pragmatic after reading your pro israeli and antimuslim posts i would hardly call you sensible or pragmatic!
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Clubber,
I said Mr. Fraudia's comments were sensible and pragmatic, not mine. FYI, I'm neither pro Israeli or anti-Muslim. Neither am I pro-Muslim or anti-Israeli. My world is not as black and white as yours. The world is made up of shades of gray to which some people are blind.
Re: Those against an attack on Iraq must do more than shake their heads at the television
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kosser_M: *
The only solution to the problems of faced by the Muslims in the World is
the re-establishment of the Khilafah(Caliphate) State, which will be
ideologically and politically independent of the West and her agents.
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I'd say the best place to start for your Khilafah is Saudi Arabia but they seem more interested in shooting gazelles in Nigeria.
Well their only doing as their ordered by their masters.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Clubber,
I said Mr. Fraudia's comments were sensible and pragmatic, not mine. FYI, I'm neither pro Israeli or anti-Muslim. Neither am I pro-Muslim or anti-Israeli. My world is not as black and white as yours. The world is made up of shades of gray to which some people are blind.
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sheesh mon, not shades of grey, but gradients of all colours :)