In another post Chanda asked me why I was so harsh–without resorting to expletives or insulting words–towards the Qadianis; especially why I used the word “mal’oon” (accursed) for their leader.
I explained in a detailed reply that the ulama of Ahle Sunnat have dealt harshly with those who insult our Nabi through history; I asked her to see how Ala Hazrat dealt with the Qadiani leader in his great fatwa book Husaam al Haramayn; what Qadi Iyad al Maliki says about those who insult the Beloved Nabi of Allah sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam.
But the ‘neutral’ moderator snipped my whole post; so now we’re not even allowed to call Non-Muslims as non-muslims; or to bring proofs for our position towards those who claim prophethood for themselves after HAbib Allah sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam.
And this is ‘fair’???
But the DAy will soon come when the enemies of Rasool Allah will face their due reward…eternal punishment. It is written in the book “Mawt ke baad kya hota hai”–a collection of hadiths about death and the afterlife–that the people who claim prophethood after Our Prophet, their punishment will be that the angels will place a rock underneath their heads, and then smash their heads with another rock on top; this will continue for eternity.
Is jang ke maidan meiN koi reply dete hue bhi khof mehsoos hota hai, lekin hmmm aik sawal to maiN bhi poochna chahti hooN.
Hamesha se is forum pe Muslims Vs Qadiyani threads khulti rahi haiN...aur un meiN agsar fazool aur ghatiya words bhi use hote rahe haiN Deepblue ke aane se pehle yeh sab band ho gaya tha.
Ab agar yeh behes dobarah shuru ho gai hai, to phir jis baat ke saath saboot ho ya woh explaination ho to use edit kioN kya jata hai?
QadiyanioN ko Non-muslim declare kia gaya hai to phir is forum pe un ke lie yeh word use kerne pe pabandi kioN hai?
Aur akhir meiN kya her moderator ke apne asool haiN, if yes to kya forum sabhalte waqt unheiN sab ke saath share kioN nahiN kerte
I don't have any problem with the word non-muslim. All the posts that were editted had inflamatory material and based on hatred than logic. I don't want to spread hatred among two groups of this forum.
I don't care what the ulmas of a particular sect have declared the manner to deal with other particular sect. This forum has its own rules and point of view.
Anything that can be considered inflamatory towards the other members of this forum will not be tolerated. So be careful when you address them, both explicitly and implicitly.
Look back through the threads and you will find a post by Roman that details his approach to moderation. He did post them. It's up to the membership to keep up with their reading.
BHAIYOON LERTAY KYUN HO… AUR ASIF JEE MAIN NAY KAB KAHA KAY AAP HARSH HO RAHAY HAIN, AAP TO BAYLAGAM BOOL RHAY THAY.. MAIN NAY TO SIRF TOKA THA KAY KISSI PAY TOHMAT LAGANAY SAY PEHLAY APNAY GIRAYBAAN MAIN TO JHAANK LAIN.. AUR IS DAFA BHI AAP NAY WOHI HERKAT DOBARA KEE.. YANI HUD HO GAEE.. KABI TAREEKH-E MOHAMMADIA MAIN KABHI KISSI KONAY MAIN AAP NAY YAY PERHA HAI KAY HUMARAY PYARAY AAQA(SWA) NAY KISSI KALMA PERHNAY WALAY KO KAFIR KAHA HO…. NA TO HUM KISSI PAY NIGRAAN BNA KAY BHAIJAY GAYE HAIN NA KISSI KA HISAAB HUM SAY LEYA JAYE GA.. SAMJHAY NIKHATTO?….IN DAQYANOOSI BAATOON MAIN KUCH NAHIN RAKHA…AANKHAIN KHOOLAIN AUR MOO DHO LAIN.. ITNA SONA THEEK NAHIN HAI, WAQT KA KHONA THEEK NAHIN HAI… UTHO JEE BAHIR JAO, AISAY WAQT KA LUTF UTHAOO….LOL….. WAISAY JEE, DEEN SIRF APNAY LEAY HOTA HAI, KISSI AUR KAY LEYE NAHIN…. SHARAM KERAIN AAP LOOG…BY THE WAY I AM NOT CORNERING ANYONE… KABHI KUCH AQAL SAY BHI SOOCH LEYA KERAIN…. AUR YAY HUMARAY MAULVI UNCLES HUMAIN KON SEE ACHI BATAIN BTATAY HAIN JO IN KI BAATOON PAY AMAL KEYA JAYE… HER WAQT DOOSROON KI BURAEEYAAN…. NAJANAY HUMARAY PAKI LOGOON KO KYA HO GAYA HAI.. SARI ISLAMI TALEMAAT AIK KINARAY KER KAY.. GHEEBAT, TOHMAT AUR GALEYOON SAY BAAT SHROO KERTAY HAIN AUR ISI PAY KHATAM.. WAISAY MUJHAY KOI KHAAS HUMDARDI NAHIN HAI QADIYANEEYON SAY PER AIK BAAT JO PASAN AAEE WO YAY KAY KABHI UN KA MESSAGE EDIT NAHIN HOA… KYA WAJAH HO SAKTEE HAI, HAIN?.. ARAY ASIF JEE YAY AAP KA MOO KYUN UTER GAYA… MAIN NAY KUCH BURA KAHDEYA.. CHALAIN MOOD THEEK KERAIN.. UFF-FO AB MUSKURAIN BHI CHUKAIN….ACHA NA MUSKURAIN… MAIN CHALEE
Please refrain from posting in upper case letters....it's not polite. In cyber-space, communicating in upper case alphabets is akin to yelling at someone.
Hmmm........at this point i HAD to reply something. I totally agree with Asif and Sabah. If Qadayanis have been declared non-Muslims...then theh R non-Muslims....period.
And Roman bhai, as for trying not to spread hatred b/w the 2 groups..well, no use cuz there's already of hatred. As for the material being "inflamatory"..well ji, sach humesha karwa hi hota hai :)
But if the post consisted of any material that proved Asifs' statements, then u shudn't have snipped it.
Aur Chanda ji....humray Rasool (PBUH) ke zamaane mein iss tarah ke firqay nahi nikle thay. Haan. Apostasy movement had started but none of the false prophets said Kalima. And after that whichever sect has come up with views of their own, reciting Kalima but having total different theories, are clearly called Non-Muslims by the Ulimas by Ijtihaad. As the Holy Propher (PBUH) had said that the Ulemas of his Ummah were to have the same position as the Prophets of Bani Isrial. So plz don't argue with the judgement of the Ulemas. Aur jo aap ney kaha ke deen sirf apnay liay hota hai to yeh baat kisi hudd tak ghalat bhi hai kyun ke ager deen sirf apney liay hota, to tableegh ka to naam-o-nishaan hi na hota ab tak.
I don't have much conflict with Jews and Chirstians or Hindus or whatever. But Yes. I do not have much love for Qadiyanis because they recite our Kalima and are still non-Muslims. What can be worse than this?
Yu are right; we do not call kalimah readers as kaafirs UNLESS THEIR KUFR IS CLEAR AND OBVIOUS. Then it is necessary to declare them as kaafirs. In fact, in shar'iat which is the Law of Our Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam, if someone's kufr is opnely manifest and their is unanimity on it in the Ummah, then it is WAJIB to call those people kaafirs; in fact in that case, to DENY their kufr is kufr itself.
So, I'm afraid on this matter you are wrong; it's nothing personal :)
Hey you all Non-Christians, who follow Non-Hindu Prophets and Non-Sikh Khalifas, and Non-Parsi Mullas,
Well, the word “Non-Muslim” in itself is a very wishful thinking. To describe anyone other than Muslim. People should be referred to as “what they are”, and not “what they are not”. It will be like referring to all Sunnis as Non-Hindus.
The world does not revolve around Islam. The sooner you realize the better for you (in terms of your mental growth!).
I agree with Hum sa.
And chanda, how can you say that the Qadiyanis posts are never edited and they are polite with us and all of them respect our beliefs.... Dear, you're missing a lot of things. You should have come here few days ago.
And about your comment keh DEEN apnay lieye hota hai, I don't remember the exact reference but it is a hadith keh kiyamat kay din Muslmaanon ka aik group aisa bhi ho ga jo duniya main namaz roza zakaat, hajj ki pabandi kartay thay magar un ko kisi aur say koi gharz nahien tha. Woh doosron main tableeqh nahien kiya kartay thay yehi soch kar keh un ko koi aur aa kar bata de ga, yaa humain kiya, hum to apni ibadat karain.... Chanda dear, people like these will also be thrown to HELL. Who don't care to spread the words of Allah in the people. (don't ask for the exact reference and words because I dont remember) Agar aap ko aik bhi achi baat ka pata hai woh doosron main phailain, is tarha Islam phailta hai. agar hum yeh soch kar baith jain keh deen apnay lieye hota hai tow dear, we will be in great trouble.
Deen phailanay kay lieye hota hai... agar aaj deen phailanay walay na hotay to hum main say majority non Muslims hotay. Ya Islam Nauzobillah phailta hi nahien.
Jo non-muslims qarar diye gaey hain un ko nonMuslims hi rehnay do. Kionkeh yeh faisla Quran aur Sunnat ki roshni main Ullama kartay hain, na keh meray ya aap jaisay kartay hain.
Your non-Hindu holy book says that "those who treat other religions with disrespect, will pay for it on the day of the judgement". I will find the exact reference if you like. Same sentiments have been quoted by your Non-Shinto scholars as attributed to your Non-Rastaferian Prophet. If you like references, I will be happy to provide.
This is not to suggest that I believe in your Non-Buddhist holy book, or your Non-Catholic Ulams, or your Non-Baptist Prophet.
Sincerely,
A no-non-nonner
P.S. most of the world doesn't care what your religion is.
[This message has been edited by Roman (edited June 16, 1999).]
"I don't have much conflict with Jews and Chirstians or Hindus or whatever. But Yes. I do not have much love for Qadiyanis because they recite our Kalima and are still non-Muslims. What can be worse than this?"
No Ahmadi is asking for your "love". You don't even show "love" to Shias, how can you show it to Ahmadis. Do all Ahmadis a favor, and keep that "love" for yourself. All they are asking is to stop telling them whom they can pray to, and who their role models are. If you want to worship chicken, no Ahmadi will question your sincerity. Why you question theirs? Even Arabs (the original Muslims) consider Ahmadis Muslims. It is only places like Al-Azhar, and some second rated Pakistani religious schools that have such a view. Go ask a Kuwaiti, or a Saudi whether an Ahmadi is a Muslim? It is only because of cheap labor of Pakistan (that these countries rely on) is what made them consider Pakistan's request to consider Ahmadis non-Muslim. There are economic reasons behind it. When the oil boom is over (which will be sooner than you think), Ahmadis will be able to go to Haj as easily as any Pakistanis (because Saudis will need revenue from any source). They will then tell Pakistani mullas to keep your "Kalima", we need money!!! My cousin, a USAF pilot, was kicking Saddam's butt in the Gulf War. He was an open Ahmadi, and no Saudi cared about his beliefs. He prayed side by side with Saudis in the desserts of Dharan.
You are absolutely right. For some reason, my internet doesn’t display all the posts. I totally agree with “Lakum Dina kum Wal Yadin”. Totally.
Dear Roman, my message should have read "your version of religion" and not "your religion". It was an oversight, and I am sorry. I respect all Religions, but the not the version that Asif represents!
Ha ha ha ha hah hah....what a JOKE!! Go to any scholar in S. Arabia and tell him you are a Qadiani--in fact Qadianis cannot even go to Hajj if I'm correct.
And I agree--for you your religion, for me mine---just dont try to pass yourself off as Muslims that's all.
By addressing me “Mr. Unbeliever”. If you mean that I don’t believe in your version of Religion, it is a complement.
“Ha ha ha ha hah hah....what a JOKE!! Go to any scholar in S. Arabia and tell him you are a Qadiani--in fact Qadianis cannot even go to Hajj if I'm correct.”
Those scholars are educated at Al-Azhar, or the cheap academies of Egypt. Ask those scholars if they have ever seen a Human Being in their life. And when Saudis (0r Arabs in general) need someone to protect them, the religion is the last thing that comes to their mind. Trust me. Just look at the past 10 years. While your Saudi Badshas were drinking in their Villas in Taif, poor Pakistanis and Americans were defending them. So much for your Saudis. Did you know how Pakistanis are treated in that part of the world? Ask someone who have lived there. One has to have a ‘professional’ job for one to be able to bring his family there. So much for family oriented Islam of Saudi Arabia.
“And I agree--for you your religion, for me mine---just dont try to pass yourself off as Muslims that's all.”
And says who? Who is passing oneself as what should be none of your problems. What makes you think yours is the right one. Don’t tell me about your phony Ulmas. They don’t know jack. They will tell you it is ok to have 6 wives. Women are not equal, etc. Why don’t you do that.
By the way, can you name some Saudi Ulams (the big one Abu Baz is now paying for his views somewhere to his Malik). He was kept in that position for the Monarchs to justify their rule. Time will soon come that your “scholars” will no longer be needed, when everyone is equal. No rulers, no mullas. That’s why Democracy is seen as such a big threat to these Mullas, because no one will listen to their bull. Tell me a democratic society where Mulla is respected.