This is this SC and that was that SC

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

Yaaar ya tu tum ko facts ka pata nahi ya phir tum apney posts sai hameen pata nahee lagney daitey ho k tum ko facts ka pata hai (or you are trying to close eyes from the facts as it points fingers towards beloved Ifti )

Let me tell you once again

Mush was VALIDATED by beloved CJ before 2002 election in fact beloved CJ gave him the authority of ALTER The CONSTITUTION that he did no even asked for in his petition ........ and if we look at how u grade judges, this will make Ifti the greatest boot licker ever :)

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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

Charges against Ifti: for not being Mushy's bootlicker anymore... As for his son is concerned, please dont let me all the corrupt crooks in musharraf's lota league didnt do anything like what they are accusing the CJ of doing so.

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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

Try giving that reason to the cop next time he stops you for over speeding. Tell him that "WO WALEE CAR BHEE TU OVER SPEEDING KER RAHEE HAI" and then let us know what he said :)

anymore>> thoree taraqee ho gaee hai. At least u now accept that CJ was a boot licker..thorey din aur hamree sauhbat main rahoo tu sub pata chal jayee ga :D

Dil Me Utar
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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

Ive been following the news closely.. Dont recall anything like this.. If it did happen, it was probably so insignifcant as to completely avoid detection...

I believe there was some instance, but the judges through out the case carried by that pathetic clown of lawyer the govt had... Nothing worng with that..
Besides this, dont recall anything, why is it so hard for you to find a source if its such a big deal?

Fact is, that there was no case against the CJ and it was rightly thrown out...

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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

Bhai, I have said this before...
A person can always change their mind and do the right thing... Even Jinnah was against Pakistan for a number of years, only to change his mind later on...
Are you saying that Jinnah was any less a leader for changing his mind the same way the CJ did?

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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

Again, the CJ did the right thing when it counted, the hallmark of any hero... Why is it so wrong if he made mistakes in the past.. He stood up when it counted...

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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

how innocent! Musharraf should be punished coz he is a traitor but Ifti should not be punished coz he “changed his mind” (for reason we all know)

Shouldn’t Ifti be held accountable for being a traitor ever though he "changed his mind " later on? Like if I go on a serial killing spree now and “change my mind” 5 years later and start doing charitable work, will you guys and law let me go?

So now you are comparing Ifti with Jinnah! :hehe: doo-chaar din baad Ifti will be above Jinnah :slight_smile:

and for you kind information, Jinnah “changed his mind” but he was never a traitor. CJ Ifti committed a SERIOUS CRIME (as per your standards too but you are just not applying it to Ifti) by taking oath on PCO … change of heart or not, he should be held accountable for it.

There is a way of changing mind too. Ifti should have resigned from his post, should have called the press conference and told them that HE IS GUILTY OF TAKING OATH ON PCO BUT NOW USS KA ZAMEER JAGH GAYA HAI AND THATS WHY HE IS QUITING AND IS READY TO GO ON TRIAL FOR IT AND HE WILL ACCEPT ANY PUNISHMENT FOR THIS AND FORM NOW ON, HE IS STARTING A MOVEMENT AGAINST MUSH COZ MUSH IS A TRAITOR

but aaah … ! he changed his mind “so quitely” aur uss k sarey gunah dhul gaeey …aur loog hasee khushee rehney lagey :slight_smile:

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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

If ifti committed a serious crime by taking oath under the PCO, what should be Musharraf's crime for giving birth to the PCO to extend his illegit rule?

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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

A very serious crime indeed. Someone should punish him .... but that someone cant be Ifti coz that someone should punish Ifti too. ...... Ifti cant be portrayed as a Saviour of democracy and champion of human rights ...

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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

Ifti refused to play to Musharrafs strings later on and didnt do it for a second time, including the other senior judges.

Now even if we leave that aside, Musharraf's crime is much more serious, for giving birth to something that destroys the fabric of the judicial system, and hes done it repeatedly for 8 years, and now plans to do it for 5 more years. So even if we agree with you by saying Ifti was no angel, and he is guilty like you are suggesting, his crime is negligible compared what Musharraf has been doing for so long. The bigger criminal needs to be punished first, and if not, atleast admit that hes an illegit dictator.

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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

Simple concept yaar, follow me.. First of all I do remember you case… The prob was that because the govt had no legal case against the CJ, they made up some lame BS… It had the dumbest garbage in there, I think they might have accused him of black magic or some garbage like that, thats was dropped and it deserved it.
The Chief Justice HADNT done anything wrong… He was only doing his job..
IF HE HAD DONE SOMETHING WRONG, IT HE WOULD BE JUDGED THROUGH DEMOCRATIC MEANS…
Now the SJC found him innocent, then why are you complaining…
Remember, unlike Musharaf, the CJ is a legal figure… He has the mandate to be CJ… Musharaf is an unelected dictator… Big difference.
Musharaf should be punished because what he has done IS treason. He sacked the CJ, even though he didnt have the authority, he changed the Constitution to suite his on whims, thats going against the statye buddy… That treason.
And no the CJ isnt accountable for what happned ten years ago, because neither is Musharaf.
Musharaf is guilty of this crime that he commited LAST month.

AND I KNEW YOU WOULD SAY IM COMPARING CJ WITH JINNAH… You missed the point completely!
This isnt about Jinnah, but the charceter of Leader and heros…
The point was, that leaders and heros are not judged by their past.. They are judged by their actions when it counts… Jinnah is a leader despite the fact that he was never consistant… A lot of leader and heros were that way… Gadhi also supported the Britsh Raj at one time, and yet he is considered a great leader…
The point is that just because the CJ made mistakes in the past, he is a hero for what he did when it counted.. Thats the way it is with all leader… Now if you can excuse Jinnah, then you can excuse the Chief Justice. Now you get it?
And whether Jinnah was a traitor or not is irrelevant… When the people who were looking to Jinnah to lead them to Pakistan and he refused, they felt betrayed to… But he stepped up when it counted..
If the Chief Justice betrayed his country in the past, thats in the past… He more then made up for it by standing up to the dictator when it counted.
You dont even have to look at Jinnah look at others… Ghandi, Benjamin Franklin, and even Malcolm X, all inconsistent and still leaders and heros.

And finally, tell me this.. Why is it that the Chief Justice can be ridiculed and maigned by people like you and the govt and Mushu, but he isnt allowed to defend himself? Mushu has gone on the tv, he has spoken through his chamcha govt all to defend himself… Why does the Chief Justice not have the same right to defend himself as Musharaf does? What honors has Musharaf gained that the CJ hasnt.. If polls are anything to go by, the CJ is far more popular then the dictator is…

!! Kill The Person Above U !!
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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

This is where we differ I guess. To me clean and transparent Judicial System is the basis of democracy in any country. I believe that a corrupt aadil-e-waqat is a bigger evil than corrupt hakim-e-waqt.

Secondly I have never denied the fact hat "technically" Mush is a dictator nor anyone can deny but at the same time I also believe that he did better than the naam nehad democratic political parties...... democracy ko kisee ko chatna nahi hota hai. Ager democracy wo hee hai jo late 80s and 90s main thee when it was "technically" a democracy but in reality it was pure dictatorship then I prefer "technical" dictatorship of Mush

غزل - رکھتی ہے جو اجداد کی دستار سلامت
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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

If the CJ is guilty of the PCO in 1999, then we also would have to bring Musharaf to trial... Thats well and good, but is Musharaf willing to allow himself to be hauled infront of and independant judge to face trial for a crime he commited in 99?
If so then fine, we should bring ALL who involved, including the heads of the PML q etc.

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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

Just to answer some of your points

  • You can call the charges minor but I see corruption (specially by Judges) a VERY SERIOUS CRIME. If we can make our judiciary corruption free that will change the future of our country.

  • For your kind information SJC was never able to complete their review of reference. If Ifti had not done anythign wrong, why not let the constitutional process work? same constitution that Ifti took oath on?

  • Accountability of Judges are performed by references to SJC and not democracy.

[quote]

And no the CJ isnt accountable for what happned ten years ago, because neither is Musharaf. Musharaf is guilty of this crime that he commited LAST month.

[/quote]

This is the coolest logic I have ever heard. Lets not punish for the crimes committed 10 years ago but only punish the crimes form last month coz in this way Ifti could be acquitted

and lastly

Jinnah sure did change his mind but here you are accusing Mush of treason and showing Ifti as a Saviour and champion of justice, What I m saying is that IF MUSH IS A TRAITOR, IFTI HAS EQUAL PART IN IT (if not more) coz IFTI VALIDATED HIM, IFTI GRANTED HIM A PERMISSION TO AMEND THE CONSTITUTION and above all IFTI TOOK OATH ON PCO ....

Alright deal ...... Mush, CJ and all judiciary that took oath on PCO in 1999 should be brought to trial on changes of Treason !!!!! :)

Timepass
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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

If you want democracy, then having a hand picked judiciary isnt the way to go...
The CJ, whatever his faults, was still independant.. And his character showed in the way he handled his court. He brought a lot of corrupt and powerful people to task.. Thats one of Mushies excuses, that he "embarassed" many high officials.. Well thats a good thing in a country as corrupt as Pakistan I should think.

And if the CJ is guilty, lets confront him the democratic way... Because atleast doing things that way would strngthen democracy in the country... Musharaf, by his autocratic and illegal methodolgy, has actually done far more harm then any "corrupt" judge could do to the country...

Timepass
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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

LOL… And pigs will fly…:rolleyes:
You forgot a lot of others who helped put Msuharaf where he is… Including the Army high command. ALL are guilty of treason…

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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

Well they never came in front but Mush, Ifti and rest of the Judiciary took OATH on PCO … Serious Crime :sadaf:

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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

Well, here is the prob I have with you… If EVERYONE is equally guilty of the same crime, why are you so hard on the Chief Justice and so forgiving of Musharaf, who you yourself have said is a dictator? In fact, you go out of your way to support Musharaf and denounce even the protesters who were in Islamabad today by sideing with the Police!
All things being equal, the CJ actually comes ahead of Musharaf for all the reason me and spock cited… And yet you still support somone who you yourself say is a dictator!
:confused:

Arranged mangni....
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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

The crime there is not the PCO, its overthrowing a democratically elected govt… Then the Chief Justice is only guilty of collusion, while Msuharaf is the main crimnal in the case..

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Re: This is this SC and that was that SC

I have never denied the fact that he is a dictator who gave more freedom to the people of Pakistan. Who was more democratic than the actual champions of democracy.

I normally get into argument when

1- People portray CJ as the angel and Saviour ....when he is NOT.

2- Always have some "but" logic prepared to undermine something good that dictator have done. He is a dictator FINE, but he CAN do something good and if he has done something good, If you cant appreciate it, keep the mouth shut instead of beating the old drum "O how he is a big dictator and all this happening coz of 911"

3- As far as protesters in ISB are concerned, I was just giving the reason they were beaten up for and btw there always are 2 faces of the pic. If access is restricted to some area by the order of Police (dafa-144), YOU CAN NOT and SHOULD not FORCE your way into that place. You CAN protest peacefully outside that parameter ager phir police martee hai tu samajh aata hai k zulm ho raha hai but if you try to outsmart police with danday and stones, you are not going to get petals in return