They Found Ramses II's first born son

Entertainment Media
1

Alright, all my religion majors of GS - does this same biblical story appear in the Quran - and if so, how does it compare?

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Ramses II

Is this Pharaoh’s firstborn? When artists transformed the measurements of a 3,000-year-old Egyptian skull into a reconstructed face, they came up with a pointed nose and chin more suited for a caricature than the son of a pharaoh.

But believe it or not, the look is in line with the norm for the family of Ramses II, one of Egypt’s greatest pharaohs. The cranial measurements, along with other forensic clues from the royal tomb where the skull was found, have led famed Egyptologist Kent Weeks to conclude the face is that of Amun-her Khepeshef, who many historians believe is the “firstborn son of Pharaoh” cited in the Book of Exodus.
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The facial reconstruction is just the latest piece in a historical puzzle, strengthening the case that Ramses II’s one-time heir apparent has indeed been found among the mummies entombed in the Valley of the Kings, within a huge funerary complex known as KV5.

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facial reconstruction

The facial reconstruction lent further scientific support — and a gee-whiz twist suitable for television — to Weeks’ hypothesis about the pharaoh’s firstborn son. But this wasn’t just any pharaoh’s firstborn: Some biblical scholars claim that Ramses II was the real-life villain of the Exodus story, whose firstborn son was killed by the 10th and final plague sent down by the God of Israel.

Could the skull shed light on the historical truth of the biblical story? The Exodus story says merely that God smote the firstborn sons of the Egyptians, as well as the firstborn calves of their cattle. Weeks lays out a less miraculous, but no less deadly, scenario for Amun-her Khepeshef’s untimely death.

Like the biblical firstborn, Amun-her Khepeshef did not survive his father. He died in his 40s or early 50s, after participating in a number of Ramses’ military campaigns as an army general and an overseer of the chariotry.

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Amun-her Khepeshef

Turning to the evidence from the KV5 complex, Weeks noted that the skull’s deep fracture is evidence of a violent, fatal wound — most likely delivered by a mace, the preferred weapon of war in Ramses’ time.

“It’s entirely possible that his wife hit him over the head, or he got out of control at a bar, but I think that the battlefield scenario makes more sense, given the fact that Amun-her Khepeshef was closely affiliated with the military,” Weeks said. “This individual probably was killed on the battlefield and then brought back to Luxor for burial in the Valley of the Kings. All of these things again suggest that it very well could be Amun-her Khepeshef, or certainly one of the principal sons of the pharaoh.”

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theres been a gzillion fir'ons, the one in the Quran drowned in the nile. Ramses 2 nahi raha ho ga to koi aur sahi.

this one looks jewish anyway.

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^ Jewish?? What the hell?

He was royalty - those folks were workers, poor things. There was no mixing of blood.

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i see from both pictures that even those who could make the pyramids couldnt find an elegant way to deal with male pattern baldness :disgust:

as for mixing of blood.. you know how royals are .. watch from hell :k:

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He dont look like RAMASIS…

Kissi aur Ka bacha pakaR ke… RAMISIS ka bana dia hay… :rolleyes:

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The Islamic sources don't, as I understand, give any mention of his first-born's age, assuming Ramses is indeed the Pharoah in question.

However, bear in mind that there is no positive identification of this corpse as this that of Amun-her Khepeshef; Pharoah had 12 other sons.

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mad_scientist, do islamic sources identify the specific pharoah?

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
mad_scientist, do islamic sources identify the specific pharoah?
[/QUOTE]

They don't, but Egyptian writings on stone that were written during his reign refer to 7 years of famine.

And statue carvings on a temple he built indicate that his first born son died before his other sons.

And his successor's record of peoples in the lands he conquered in his war against the Hittites suggest that he did not view the "Children of Israel" as a foreign nation - in turn implying a familiarity with them.

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Theres no mention of Moses either anywhere, so until then we can never really be sure of which Pharoah it is.

Also the Seven year famine was in relation to the story of Yusuf :as:. Again not much eveidence about him either.

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Whoops - confused me! I saw the documentary a while ago. It was definately about who was the Pharoah Moses (pbuh) stood up to. I thknk the old testament does mention that the Egyptians were cursed with a famine as punishment ofr not releasing the Bani Israel, and that was the famine the writings referred to..

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I think your talking about the plagues of Egypt. Yeah and I saw the same documentary :slight_smile:

Google search

Doing a quick search, you can find mentions of the 10 plagues. None are directly called a famine as far as I can see, but some of these plagues probably did result in a minor famine (ie. blood water, flies etc). But the 7 year famine is a direct reference to Yusuf :as:, thats what I was pointing out.

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actually one commentary that i read, says that pharoah is easier pronounced in arabic than fir'awn....
so the fir'awn mentioned in the Quran does not translate to Pharoah but is the real name of the pharoah in the time of Moosa (as)....
so he wud be more appropriately called pharaoh fir'awn....

so if u go by this, ramsis shamsis story is all baseless....

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Fir’aun (Pharaoh) said: “O chiefs! I know not that you have an ilâh (a god) other than me, so kindle for me (a fire), O Hâmân, to bake (bricks out of) clay, and set up for me a Sarhan (a lofty tower, or palace, etc.) in order that I may look at (or look for) the Ilâh (God) of Mûsa (Moses); and verily, I think that he [Mûsa (Moses)] is one of the liars.” (Al-Qasas 28:38)

And Fir’aun (Pharaoh) said: "O Hâmân! Build me a tower that I may arrive at the ways, (Ghafir 40:36)

“The ways of the heavens, and I may look upon the Ilâh (God) of Mûsa (Moses) but verily, I think him to be a liar.” Thus it was made fair-seeming, in Fir’aun’s (Pharaoh) eyes, the evil of his deeds, and he was hindered from the (Right) Path, and the plot of Fir’aun (Pharaoh) led to nothing but loss and destruction (for him). (Ghafir 40:37)

http://www.compulink.co.uk/~archaeology/civilisation/egypt/zoser/step%20pyramid.jpg

ok since we are not issuing islamic rulngs, and are just stating our opinions, let me state mine. i think that the ayahs of quran stated above shed some light on the issue of pyramids. when firon told haman to make a "tower"so that he could see allah, haman might have built a “step” pyramid towards heavens in order to fulfill it. and then later on that design was adopted by future pharoahs and we got pyramids of giza and all. wallah o alam though.

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The pyramid of Giza were built around 2500 BC, and Moses :as: is generally said to have been around 1200 years later. So there were already Pharoahs building large monuments and pyramids were mainly used as burial places. The story mentioned in the Quran seems unlikely to have been about a Pyramid, more likely a building which was in current use, maybe a high rise temple with high columns or something. But as you say Allah knows best.

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Egypt has been subjected to earthquakes that have destroyed all ancient tower-like structures, such as the Lighthouse at Alexandria.

If Firoun had constructed such a tower, in all likelyhood it would have been destroyed by an earthquake several years later.

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Re: They Found Ramses II's first born son

I don't think that there is any such reference in Quran.

P.S. We should realize that, by citing such stories in Quran, Allah tells us how people have opposed and rejected His message in the past and what happened with some of them in return. These stories also show that eventually the truth prevails. The people who rejected the Prophets (as) were given a fair chance to realize the truth, and then many of them were destroyed through various forms of 'Azaab-e-Ilaahi.'

In other words, Quran doees not mention such events from the past just to generate an interest in history :), but for its readers (muttaqeens) to learn the required lesson. No matter how interesting these archeological researches are, they are worthless for us if we fail to learn this lesson.

(Just my random thoughts)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
does this same biblical story appear in the Quran - and if so, h
ow does it compare?

[/QUOTE]

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ramyssysIX, very well said. firaun was destroyed by Allah(swt) because firaun rejected the truth bought to him by Musa(as). His body was preserved by Allah(swt) so that people may take lessons from firaun.

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thats one beautiful guy