Abdali - Where do any of your link say that Kashmiris’ life was made miserable by Indian Army ?? One good link - No fakes please.
The question is not when terrorism started, it is was Kashmiri’s life miserable before 1989 because of Indian military ?? Answer is NO - You have not been able to produce a single link which says that. you unsuccessfully tried to paint a lie here and now trying to change the topic by telling terrorism started in 1987.
Even If the insurgency started in 1987 - It doesn’t prove that Kashmiris’ life was miserable because of Indian forces. Changing the topic will not help you.
Farookh was re-instated in 1987
Gau Kadal happened in 1987 too
Nailed ?? Had ho gayee - You are the one who is caught telling lies again and again, You are the one who is caught misquoting newspapers (remember Gau Kadal in 1987), You are the one who has not provided a single link which mentions that Indian govt/Army made Kashmiri’s live miserable, You are the one who is beating around the bush now and still have the guts to tell me that I am Nailed.
You remind me of Saddam Husain telling the world that it beat US in the gulf War :hehe:
Anyways about When the Militancy started in Kashmir - Here is from BBC :-
" ** since Muslim insurgency began in 1989*, the number of armed separatists has grown from hundreds to thousands."*
Here try one more time and tell us where you are losing it.
You said:- before the Terrorism started in 1989.
Explain the following........
1987-Others blame the theft of the election as the closure of political space making a resort to armed struggle inevitable. ** India responds with repression. **
the PKM has listed names of ** Pandits who had been murdered by secessionists in the State since 1987 **
What is this not terrorism BUT love...... may be you should go line by line and comprehend what you said....
Since 1989, the situation in Occupied Kashmir has undergone a qualitative change. In that year, disappointed by decades-old indifference of the world community towards their just cause and threatened by growing Indian state suppression, the Kashmiri Muslim people rose in revolt against India. A popular uprising that has gained momentum with every passing day—unlike the previous two popular uprisings by Kashmiris (1947-48, first against Dogra rule and then against Indian occupation; and 1963, against Indian rule, triggered by the disappearance of Holy relic), which were of a limited scale.
The initial Indian response to the 1989 Kashmiri uprising was the imposition of Governor’s Rule in the disputed State in 1990, which was done after dissolving the government of Farooq Abdullah, the son of Sheikh Abdullah. From July 1990 to October 1996, the occupied State remained under direct Indian presidential rule. In September 1996, India stage-managed ‘State Assembly’ elections in Occupied Kashmir, and Farooq Abdullah assumed power in October 1996. Since then, the situation in the occupied territories has further deteriorated. Not only has the Indian military presence in the disputed land increased fundamentally, the reported incidents of killing, rape, loot and plunder of its people by Indian security forces have also quadrupled.
To crush the Kashmiri freedom movement, India has employed various means of state terrorism, including a number of draconian laws, massive counter-insurgency operations, and other oppressive measures. The draconian laws, besides several others, include the Armed Forces (Jammu and Kashmir) Special Powers Act, 1990; Terrorist and Disruptive Activities Act (TADA), 1990; the Jammu & Kashmir Public Safety Act, 1978 (amended in 1990); and the Jammu & Kashmir Disturbed Areas Act, 1990.
What next - Pak Govt is also lying ?? Or are you going to accuse the Webmaster of that site of being a RAW AGENT
You continusely beat the old drum we are not talking about 89 but before 89 ie 87 when you claim there was no terrorism... Now based on that explain the following.
You said:- before the Terrorism started in 1989.
Explain the following........
1987-Others blame the theft of the election as the closure of political space making a resort to armed struggle inevitable. India responds with repression.
the PKM has listed names of Pandits who had been murdered by secessionists in the State since 1987
May be you want to read more carefully about other uprising before 87 too. Its right in the fisrt para. But forget about 48 and 63 explain about 87..
P.S: The Pak site says lots of things you don't want to know.....
So you mean - Pak Govt has made a mistake and they should update their site to 1987 to prove your point :)
You have now completely changed the topic - abdali - It's not the matter when terrorism started it's weather or not Kashmiri's life was miserable because of Indian Govt/army before 1989. You couldn't prove that.
Do you say the Pak Govt is wrong ??
Do you say that BBC is wrong ??
This is a perfect example of beating around the bush.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Asif_k: *
So you mean - Pak Govt has made a mistake and they should update their site to 1987 to prove your point :)
You have now completely changed the topic - abdali - It's not the matter when terrorism started it's weather or not Kashmiri's life was miserable because of Indian Govt/army before 1989. You couldn't prove that.
Do you say the Pak Govt is wrong ??
Do you say that BBC is wrong ??
This is a perfect example of beating around the bush.
[/QUOTE]
So when you said above terrorism started in 89 you were BSing... and those reports about Pandits being killed that is BS too. Those reports about assisnation atempts on puppet Farooq is horse crap. Right so what do you call this.....LOVE.....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *
So when you said above terrorism started in 89 you were BSing... and those reports about Pandits being killed that is BS too. Those reports about assisnation atempts on puppet Farooq is horse crap. Right so what do you call this.....LOVE.....
[/QUOTE]
Please answer the question and dont avoid it. BSing is your forte - I even posted the link in favor of my statement one from a neutral source and other from your favorable PAK.GOV site. Now you dont believe either of those ??
Please tell us that you dont believe Pak Govt site and it is load of BS - that will clear lot of things, Please also tell us that BBC is BSing too. Only person who is not BSing is ABDALI - and how - by making false claims like Farookh was re-instated in 1987 and protestors in Gau Kadal were killed in 1987 too.
I am still wating for your answer on PAK govt's site - Please tell us, is it lying ?
You said terrorism started in 89.......... Instead of hiding behind words just explain the killings of pundits in 87 attack on farooq in 87 what was that. I can provide tons of links claiming it started in 87. ...
here is your lates confession.... So it was basically the terrorist which made the Kashmiri's life miserable in 87
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *
You said terrorism started in 89.......... Instead of hiding behind words just explain the killings of pundits in 87 attack on farooq in 87 what was that. I can provide tons of links claiming it started in 87. ...
[/QUOTE]
Yes I said that and unlike you I backed up my statement from PAK.GOV link and BBC a very credible link. do you mean to say that PAK GOVT is wrong about terrorism in Kashmir ???????
[QUOTE]
[here is your lates confession.... So it was basically the terrorist which made the Kashmiri's life miserable in 87
[/QUOTE]
That was in response to your statement when you said that Indian Army made the Kashmiri's life miserable before 1989 and you couldn't back it up and started changing the topic.
Once again - it is not a question of when the Terrorism started but was was the life of Kashmiri's miserable because of Indian Army/Military before 1989 ? The simple answer is NO - If you think otherwise then prove it.
Good good since you are in admission about terrorism in 89 now may be you can explain the uprising/killings of pandits/attack on puppet etc... in 87..... You started of with terrorism and when nailed changed to misrable. Try again....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *
Good good since you are in admission about terrorism in 89 now may be you can explain the uprising/killings of pandits/attack on puppet etc... in 87.....
[/QUOTE]
May be they were couple of isolated incidents of violence against Pandits - doesn't mean terrorism was all over the state - Crime against minorities is not a new thing in the subcontinet. In Pak, christians were attacked and killed - it doesn't mean terrorism has started in Pakistan.
About the attack on Farookh Abdullah - I couldn't care less.
BTW - you didn't answer my question - Is pak govt wrong about Kashmir ?
** "May be they were couple of isolated incidents of violence against Pandits - doesn't mean terrorism was all over the state " **
Bingo.... and thats when it started... from one of the links above.
The 1987 elections are believed to be rigged; The insurgency in the Valley increases in momentum from this point on, given the consistent failure of democracy and limited employment opportunities; Many of the candidates and election aides become militants..
You care two hoots about puppet is not the point nor I give a damn about the puppet but according to HT an attack on the puppet was the beginning if insurgency.
To be fair, the insurgency began in 1987 locally when Centre let FArooq Abdullah and his chamchas to rig the elections blatantly. Between 1987-89, the violence was local and sporadic. I personally was in Kashmir for a while and the local feeling was obvious. JKLF slogans were in msot places.
JKLF at that time was mostly indigenous. They had a little support from Pak. Indian Army crushed JKLF, so they pussed out. Pak realized that JKLF could not be trusted to put up a long fight. At that point Pak started sending in their Afghan "veteran" terrorists.
In any case 1987 or 1989 is just a moot point. It all started due to Indian govt's mismanagement and corruption. What happened since then is the real story.
To be fair, the insurgency began in 1987 locally when Centre let FArooq Abdullah and his chamchas to rig the elections blatantly. Between 1987-89, the violence was local and sporadic. I personally was in Kashmir for a while and the local feeling was obvious. JKLF slogans were in msot places.
JKLF at that time was mostly indigenous. They had a little support from Pak. Indian Army crushed JKLF, so they pussed out. Pak realized that JKLF could not be trusted to put up a long fight. At that point Pak started sending in their Afghan "veteran" terrorists.
In any case 1987 or 1989 is just a moot point. It all started due to Indian govt's mismanagement and corruption. What happened since then is the real story.
[/QUOTE]
Thank you Talwar ji I don't think I will add any thing more... bheen bjatay bjatay thak gia....
I have been saying this for long “bhainse kay agay been baja nay ka koi faida nahi” :k: good to know it was not only me there are few more people who thinks the same
Talwar Saheb - thank you for your valuable input. This is what you think but JKLF had plans for Armed insurgency from 1986 itself (after Amanullah khan was deported from UK. JKLF admits this in its Web Page :-
"As such, armed freedom struggle had to be started sooner or later and JKLF was doing ground work in diplomatic and political fields and it would have started armed freedom struggle later on but Mr Amanullah Khan’s deportation from England towards the end of 1986 on India’s behest paved the way for the armed struggle starting earlier. Attempts by NLF in sixties and seventies, to send people from Azad Kashmir (AK) to Indian held Kashmir (IHK) to indoctrinate and train people in armed freedom struggle there, had failed and had not only resulted in Aurangzeb being martyred and Maqbool Butt being arrested and later hanged, but had also resulted in arrest of several hundred sympathisers in IHK both the times and carrying the impression that Kashmiris’ liberation struggle is a foreign sponsored movement and not an indigenous and popular one. As such,* we decided that, instead of sending people from AK to IHK to fight there, even to train the youth there, patriotic and brave youth from IHK (Valley) be brought to AK and indoctrinated, trained in armed freedom struggle, armed and be sent back to IHK. The plan was implemented in such a fool-proof manner with such top secrecy that Indians knew nothing about it until (by middle of 1988) hundreds of youth from Valley were back from Azad Kashmir fully trained and well equipped with quite modern and light arms.** "*
