Theory of Abrogation..

This is in response to some claims made by guppies in the difference in sunni and shia qur’an thread. I did not want to fuel that thread or divert it so here’s a separate thread to discuss this important issue:

First off I’m no ‘Qura’nist’ I worship God Alone.. great difference..

As for the verse quoted, it’s out of context (favorite habit of most sectarians to justify their beloved hadiths).

The theory of ‘abrogation’ is a scholarly invention. It holds no water if you study the verse in context. Many scholars have debunked it, including but not limited to Muhammad Asad.

Here’s the verse in context.. please do read carefully:

[2:105] Those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book do not like, nor do the polytheists, that the good should be sent down to you from your Lord, and Allah chooses especially whom He pleases for His mercy, and Allah is the Lord of mighty grace.

PakistaniAbroad: Pause for a moment.. reflect. What ‘good’ was being sent down to the believers? It was the Holy Qur’an. Thus the topic is already established.. it’s the chagrin of the disbelievers and mushrikeen over the believers chosen to receive Allah’s communications. This new book, one-upped the Torah and the Bible and naturally the followers of the Book were peeved that their books were being superceded.

Now read the next verse and things get crystal clear:

[2:106] Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?

Pretty clear now that the verse is discussing how the Qur’an has overtaken earlier scriptures and now supercedes them.

The sectarians have started misinterpreting it to claim the Qur’anic verses are abrogated :naooz: all because of their belief in post Qur’anic fabrications and their desire to uphold them over what they received in the shape of the Qur’an.

“But wait!” the sectarian might say.. “what about this?”:

[16:101] And when We change (one) communication for (another) communication, and Allah knows best what He reveals, they say: You are only a forger. Nay, most of them do not know.

PakistaniAbroad: Once again the verse alone might cast doubts as to how to interpret it and most sectarians would use it to prop up their ‘abrogation theory’ again.. but once again we will study it in context and understand the meaning :insha:

Let’s pick up the clues from 16:101

[16:101] And when We change (one) communication for (another) communication, and Allah knows best what He reveals, they say: You are only a forger. Nay, most of them do not know.

The part in bold is key to understanding the message of the verse. People accuse the prophet of being a forger and hence the Qur’an of being a forgery. Not just one verse of it.. cuz the disbelievers rejected the whole Qur’an.. not single verses. Thus “the communication” that is being discussed is The Qur’an. not one verse of it.

Now let’s search the Qur’an for a confirmation of the same and indeed Allah helps us understand His Qur’an if we want to:

[38:1] Suad, I swear by the Quran, full of admonition.

PakistaniAbroad: context established.

[38:2] Nay! those who disbelieve are in self-exaltation and opposition.

[Shakir 38:3] How many did We destroy before them of the generations, then they cried while the time of escaping had passed away.

[Shakir 38:4] And they wonder that there has come to them a warner from among themselves, and the disbelievers say: This IS an enchanter, a liar.

[Shakir 38:5] What! makes he the gods a single Allah? A strange thing is this, to be sure!

PakistaniAbroad: Context confirmed.. it’s people who do not believe challenging the new concept introduced to them through the Qur’an.

[Shakir 38:6] And the chief persons of them break forth, saying: Go and steadily adhere to your gods; this is most surely a thing sought after.

[Shakir 38:7] We never heard of this in the former faith; this is nothing but a forgery:

PakistaniAbroad: :alhamd: we found our clue. So this is what 16:101 is discussing.. This is when peole called the Qur’an a forgery and the Prophet a forger.

All clues thus pointing to the fact that the change in communication is about Allah’s previous communications and the latest and last communication The Qur’an.. not :naooz: discrepancies within the Qur’an or some ill found theory of abrogation.

[10:15] And when Our clear communications are recited to them, those who hope not for Our meeting say: Bring a Qur’an other than this or change it. Say: It does not beseem me that I should change it of myself; I follow naught but what is revealed to me; surely I fear, if I disobey my Lord, the punishment of a mighty day

i guess i agree with you, even though i wish your explanation of the second verse was as convincing as your explanation of the first.

hm. i guess i need to do some research.

firstly, it's not a theory.

secondly, it wasn't the scholars who invented abrogation.

i'm no 'quranist' either but i've studied this topic in some detail.
the quran was constantly in a mode of revelation during the time of the prophet (pbuh) which is why it was not compiled into a book between two covers. verses were continuously being added and subtraced so as to make it easier for the people of the time.
for instance, allah revealed that muslims were to abstain from consuming alcohol and then...... once they got used to not having it, he made it haram.
another controversial example is that of mu'tah that shias believe is allowed and sunnis believe is not. originally, it was allowed and eventually it was made haram altogether. my guess is that shias are using the abrogated verse to claim that it is still allowed but then again that is just my opinion.
and allah knows best!

hafsa, its a different issue that rulings from previous ayaat may/may not contradict rulings from latter ones. (although I'd be interested in learning about this issue too..)

this is another, completely different thing, that certain ayaat were struck out from the Quran, and are now not present in any of its compilations. This opens the Quran up for allegations of nefarious/presumptuous changes like those with the Bible and previous books.

[QUOTE]
this is another, completely different thing, that certain ayaat were struck out from the Quran, and are now not present in any of its compilations. This opens the Quran up for allegations of nefarious/presumptuous changes like those with the Bible and previous books.
[/QUOTE]

ok, i understand where you're coming from completely, however if the qur'an is read with a reliable tafseer (I.E. Ibn Katheer or Saheeh International) than abrogated verses can be explained properly and no such allegations would exist. for instance, in surah al-Bakarah it says you can pray facing any direction but later on in the qur'an it says face the ka'bah... now without the correct tafseer, it would be called a contradiction which is why tafseer is so important (along with many other factors but going into that is a whole new topic in itself). if you would like to know which tafseers are less reliable pls send a personal message as i don't fancy opening a debate about them!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by hafsa_dudette: *
for instance, allah revealed that muslims were to abstain from consuming alcohol and then...... once they got used to not having it, he made it haram.
[/QUOTE]

You make it seem as if God was unsure of his commands and decisions and liable to change. It isn't as if God decides 'Oh lets get them to quit 3 drops today and tomorrow its forbidden for them forevermore'.

So were the Muslims alkies up until the 'original' verse was abrogated?

What happens to orginal abrogated verse? Is it taken out or still included as part of the Quranic revelations? This would lead to some See-ri-ous questions about 'change' in Quran.

I have great reservations about the Theory of Abrogation.

i have studied the theory of abrogation and maybe i'll change my view later in life if someone came up with a better explanation, but as for now, from all i've heard and read and thought, especially after a dive into mufti taqi usmani's "uloom-al-quraan", i've concluded that its all just a hype.... a slap on the faces of all those sincere and true muslims who believe that Quran is the unaltered Word of God....

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by XTC: *

You make it seem as if God was unsure of his commands and decisions and liable to change. It isn't as if God decides 'Oh lets get them to quit 3 drops today and tomorrow its forbidden for them forevermore'.

So were the Muslims alkies up until the 'original' verse was abrogated?

What happens to orginal abrogated verse? Is it taken out or still included as part of the Quranic revelations? This would lead to some See-ri-ous questions about 'change' in Quran.

[/QUOTE]

no.... you've misunderstood me totally.
so as to make it EASY for the people of the time Allah (swt) ordered them to stay away from it and then once they got used to not having it, he made it Haram. look at it this way... how difficult would it be for you if you had a real addiction to something i.e. cigarettes, alcohol etc and you were ordered to quit it just like that? wouldn't toy find it difficult and wouldn't it drive you away from the thing that told you to do it??? i'll leave you to think about it. it's not about God changing his mind... it's him showing mercy to his people by making life easier for them so they are less likely to transgress. case closed.

[QUOTE]
i've concluded that its all just a hype.... a slap on the faces of all those sincere and true muslims who believe that Quran is the unaltered Word of God....
[/QUOTE]

sorry to disappoint you but it's not just a hype or scholarly invention or anything else that you might like to call it. for a real scope, take a look at 'al-itqaan fee uloom ul quran' by as-Suyuti.
in the mean time, i'm going to dig up my research on abrogation and prove that it's authentic and all the rest of it...

PakistaniAbroad... you are saying that obrogation of entire scriptures - Qur'an entirely abrogating Bible - is OK and acceptable but abrogation within a scripture - obrogation within Qur'an itself say - is not OK?

Assalam O Alaikum,

I don't know how people can Naozobilah entertain the idea of theory of abrogation in Holy Quran.

Please read in Surah Baqarah

[QUOTE]
This is a perfect Book; there is no doubt in it; it is a guidance for the righteous,
[/QUOTE]

I think the above verse should be enough to dispel any doubts in Holy Quran.

May Allah save us from this evil theory of abrogation!

I too have read about abrogation concept and have found it impossible to explain. If you do not accept abrogation concept the verses in the quran end up contradicting each other and so they do if you do accept the abrogation concept. There is no way around this problem and muslim scholars of all backgrounds have been struggling with this concept.

To accept that Allah did not abrogate the verses within the quran but abrogated earlier revelations is actually same if one comes to realise it. One must remember that according to the quran, Allah's way of doing things never changes nor does his word. So the task of explaining away such problems for muslims is an impossible one try all they like.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MMughal: *
If you do not accept abrogation concept the verses in the quran end up contradicting each other
[/QUOTE]

lets see examples of contradicting verses....

Mr. MMughal,

Contradictions are in the way you are interpreting Holy Quran and not in the Holy Quran itself.

Some links to some sites discussing the issue of abrogation;

http://www.rim.org/muslim/clear.htm

http://www.quran-islam.org/89.html
http://home.pcisys.net/~mindrenewal/islam_abrogation.html
http://www.khilafah.com/home/lographics/category.php?DocumentID=2817&TagID=2

^
bring up the examples one by one, so we can have short and to-the-point discussions....