who is then, 100 year war mongering pat robertson endorsement seeking bomb bomb bomb iran mccain?
Re: Obama survives, prepares for general election
UTD, do we need to revisit Jermiah Wright sermon again (I am sure it has been discussed here before). Please, that guy lapped it up for 20 freaking years, his wife was never proud of America till the day her husband won a primary....these are not the people we should be putting in charge of our country. Please try some other spin. It does not work. He is a racist who has the black vote cornered to the tune of 90%. He is not electable.
You choose to ignore that McCain sought out the endorsement of someone who wants Christians to go to war with Islam and focus on Jermiah Wright, why is that? The fact is everyone has relationships with people who's views we don't agree with and if you don't then you live a sheltered and closed minded life.
As far as Michelle Obama's comment which is posted below, it's clear she was referencing the attitude of American people in reguards to this election process and how that made her proud. Thats why the spun on the story failed and it had no legs.
"Let me tell you something, For the first time in my adult lifetime, I'm really proud of my country and not just because Barack has done well but because I think people are hungry for change." -Michelle Obama at an Obama Rally.
And again more name calling by you, grow up. Every Democrat running for President since the 1970's has had more than 80% of the black vote, you act as if having the black vote is a bad thing.
Re: Obama survives, prepares for general election
Ravage & UTD, This thread is about Obama and his shortcomings. I will be happy to discuss the blunder that McCain is in a separate thread with you.
BTW: McCain never said that it will be a 100 year war. You may want to double check your sources :) He said we will be there 100 years....you care to refute that...go right ahead....keep in mind we are still Germany and Japan... :)
Re: Obama survives, prepares for general election
Ravage & UTD, This thread is about Obama and his shortcomings. I will be happy to discuss the blunder that McCain is in a separate thread with you.
BTW: McCain never said that it will be a 100 year war. You may want to double check your sources :) He said we will be there 100 years....you care to refute that...go right ahead....keep in mind we are still Germany and Japan... :)
No, this thread isn't about Obama and his shortcomings, no hijacking. McCain said he would be willing to keep troops in Iraq for 100 years, him being a Senator you have to question his judgement, why would he make such a silly comment? Obama on the otherhand used his judgement which lead him to be against the war from the get go.
Re: Obama survives, prepares for general election
UTD, tell me why do we have troops in Germany? Why? Do not sidestep the question... that is what he was referring but of course you libs hijacked it as usual and turned it into as if he was asking for 100 years of war.
Racists and America haters are not worthy becoming of US president.
Re: Obama survives, prepares for general election
There is no reason for american troops in germany except to continue american dadageeri in the area. Likewise Japan. If you think America can retain bases in Iraq without war-like conditions continuing to prevail you learn nothing from the past two decades. America will remain in a state of war so long as it attempts to practice its brand of imperialism-lite in the region.
McCain advocated invading Iraq BEFORE 9/11, the guy is a war mongering uber-hawk who would cut spending only to divert the money to the military. His intentions with regards to Iran for example are very clear, the most hawkish of any presidential candidate, running or defeated. The guy is a third generation soldier, and views the world with a militaristic mindset. He makes Dick Cheney seem like a peacenik hippy.
Re: Obama survives, prepares for general election
Ravage, I can appreciate your point of view, but here is a fundamental question for you " Do you have a dog in this race"? In other words, will you be voting in this upcoming elections?
That aside, I never said that McCain has all the answers, he does however, presents a better alternative to both Hairy and the racist.
If I recall correctly all of the presedential hopefuls advocated and supported war in Iraq. You are fooling yourself if you believe that any of them will have the stones to bring the troops back in short order. This is the problem with dems they live in Utopia and not the real world. Tell me a scenario where the racist or Hairy will be able to accomplish that. They have already established that they will continue this pattern ...one advocating for bombing Iran the other one Pakistan. What makes you think they will pull out troops form Iraq?
Re: Obama survives, prepares for general election
I dont have a dog in any race Kaleem sahab. However of the three, the most likely to reverse Bush's disastrous policies is Obama.
Now about Hillary and Obama continuing the presence in Iraq, neither of them argues that position from an ideological perspective. That is important, because that indicates the propensity one would have towards expanding the war in other parts of the Muslim world. The stance you take is important, even if you say that they wont completely meet it, atleast it wouldnt be McCain's level of who should I invade today? And yes Obama voted against the Iraq war, whereas (i repeat) McCain advocated invading Iraq before 9/11. Surely there is a difference in the level of war-happiness apparent between McCain and not just the two democrats, but any normal american politician.
The republican party used to be the party that was torn between limited government Reagan republicans and war-happy, shaping the world in our image Roosevelt republicans. Thanks to bush and the neo-cons the limited government rhetoric is all but buried. Now McCain is the one pushing forward regulations on markets and campain finances. McCain is the one talking about how striving for personal gain alone is dishonorable (a subtle attack on capitalism). McCain is the militaristic collectivist.
I am very interested in small government libertarianism, and I can tell you that the wing of republicans that is most interested in small government absolutely abhorrs mccain.
Re: Obama survives, prepares for general election
Ravage, so you will have the soothsayers and than watch helplessly as they invade Iran and bomb Pakistan. In the case of McCain, he is transparent. You may not like it, but his actions and words are the same. You cannot say the same for Hillary or Obama.
Like I said, McCain does not have all the answers and he has a huge battle ahead of him as you pointed out winning the support of actual conservatives. He will probably eat his pride and choose Romney as the VP candidate. This action alone will appease quite a few conservatives and will probably make the republican ticket insurmountable short of obama and Hillary on the same ticket.
Re: Obama survives, prepares for general election
McCain only has the aura of transparence. He has made as many u-turns as any other slimey politician, and merely invokes his im a veteran i was tortured blanket everytime someone scrutinizes him.
He courted the same religious nutjob preachers that he called “agents of intolerance” not too long ago. That alone bars him from any claim of straight shooting. He is very much a washington insider. He was against tax cuts before he was for them. If you say he will add Romney to appease conservatives, doesnt that tell you how skin deep his truth talking is? Read more of how disastrous he would be for small government republicans here. After the neo-cons here, more years under mccain would effectively make the republican party a militaristic version of the democrats, preferring big government money to be spent on foreign soil (and blood), instead of american.
Now as for soothsayers invading Iran and Pakistan, both scenarios are based on extrapolation from isolated statements of dem candidates trying to look tough, whereas they are staple policy positions/favourite bedtime dreams for McCain. There remains a difference between them and McCain on the war-happiness that you have no way of arguing against except speculating that these two will not be true to their word, whereas you KNOW McCain is definitely advocating broadening the war.
Re: Obama survives, prepares for general election
[QUOTE]
you KNOW McCain is definitely advocating broadening the war.
[/QUOTE]
No, neither I or you do not know that.
Do you really believe that Hillary and Obama will bring about a change that will change US foreign policy? If you do, I have a piece of land in Manhattan that I will like to sell you.
Re: Obama survives, prepares for general election
How dont you know that Kaleem sahab. Like I said he was advocating war before 9/11, he has consistently cheer-led along with Bush's war and has advocated pre-emptive attacks on Iran, not under some hypothetical scenarios, but under the current circumstances. He is a military interventionist a label that fits neither clinton nor obama.
I do think Hillary and Obama will have a very different foreign policy from McCains, do you seriously think either of these politicians is as hawkish on foreign policy as McCain is? If so you seriously havent looked into McCain.
Re: Obama survives, prepares for general election
Ravage, do I sense some frustration? :)
Every single one of these presidential hopefuls will do what is best for America. If that calls for keeping the troops in Iraq they will do it. Do you really believe that they are willing to take a chance and bring the troops back home and Allah forbid their is another attack on US soil, or Iran takes over in Iraq? What do you think they will face here in US? Do not forget they are politicians they will never subject themselves to such a scenario. Like it or not, this foreign policy is here to stay. It has been the same for over 5 decades and a racist or a socialist/communist is not about to change it.
Re: The virtues and vices of McCain [split: Obama survives...]
You're baselessly saying that there is no difference in their foreign policy basically. Yes America will retain a presence in the gulf, the question is to what extent. McCain is advocating wars of choice, Dems are advocating a more limited presence, probably to the extent of the Clinton years. Obviously America still had a sizable presence then, but you talk like 20kg and 2 tons are the same thing, like a feather is just as much of a bird as an ostrich.
The guy loves wars, he talks about it in his national-greatness books, he talks about expanding the military's size, presence, intervensionism and funding as policy. To say its a wash because they're all the same is a cop out, because you can say pretty much the same for every domestic programme then too. Bush has expanded the socialist state, and mccain will too. That doesnt mean hes as big of a big-governmenter as Obama.
Re: The virtues and vices of McCain [split: Obama survives...]
Ravage, let me ask you.... What do you think is best for America? Take your not so objective hat off and tell me what is best for America? fight the war on foreign soil or here in US?
I do not know if he loves war or not. He has been criticized for attacking Bush on the Iraq war already. In addition, the baggage brought on by the leftist is too much for me to bear... I do not and will not support socialized medicine, I will not support my tax money funding illegals education and health care. I will not support reverse racisim (see Obama). I will not support 1% minority dictating what should be taught in the classroom (being gay is okay).
Now you tell me where exactly do you stand on these issues and lastly how this election will effect you one way or the other?
Re: The virtues and vices of McCain [split: Obama survives...]
I must say I like the title :)
Re: The virtues and vices of McCain [split: Obama survives…]
You offer a false choice. Do you feel the same way if the foreign soil was Pakistan?
You dont have to fight a war in either place, Iraq was completely a war of choice, as will be Iran, as will be Pakistan (God forbid)
He criticized Bush’s handling of the war, not the war itself. He actually said that he would’ve started the Iraq war, regardless of wmd. transcript/video
Too bad McCain has the same stance on immigration as the more leftist of democrats. As for socialized medicine, true that is one problem with the democrats, but it is unconscionable to prefer killing lots of Muslims versus possibly paying higher taxes.
Unfortunately for you McCain is not a small-government conservative. He is all for pushing a certain worldview on the world and on america. The only thing that will change is what those views are.
He has actually been involved in pushing for federal legislation overriding local laws (see legislation by him concerning Indian reservations)
The election will effect me to the extent that it will effect every Muslim. It will influence whether or not torture is okay, whether or not the war is expanded, whether or not Pakistan is further destabilised by a more jingoistic president rather than one that atleast doesnt proclaim his desire to bomb people in song. All I strongly care about is the foreign policy positions, which is why the liberal baggage doesnt matter as much to me.
That said I do believe in small government, and as a casual observer tend to prefer it when libertarian ideas win over. Sadly small-government doesnt have a horse in this race :). Its either socialist big-government, or national-greatness neo-imperialistic big government.
Re: The virtues and vices of McCain [split: Obama survives…]
McCain’s YouTube Problem Just Became a Nightmare
