reply to shazadqu
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*Originally posted by shahzadqu: *
I agree with Khilafah and Matsui on some points and disagree with both on others :)
first Khilafah, walikum assalam
nobody said the road to Islamic way of living is gonna be easy. Devil (im not referring to TV or Music or western socities, just talking in general) is always there to push us away from the straight path. I lived in Pakistan for 18 years, while there, i didn't see much on our TV or Music that would move us away from the teachings of Islam, infact, i've seen more good things. or even other countries. i dont' think there is anything wrong in a culture of freedom and enjoying you life to the maximum. wut matters is where you draw the line. We, Muslims, are suppose to take care of our lives in this world meaning, don't just sit in one corner and pray, but live our life to the fullest. but that doesn't mean that we can go out and do wutever we want. there are limits to everything and our religion teaches them very well. there are a lot of admirable qualities in the western culture which our people turn their eyes from. yes, i agree that there are a lots and lots of corruption in western culture, but you just can't close your eyes, turn the TV and radio off and pretend that its not there. and you can't go wage a war on western countries either so that u can root out the "evil". One of the most important teachings of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and Quran is to learn to co-exist with other cultures, religions and ideologies.
now moving to your another point, "free-mixing of opposite sex". I also don't believe that there is anything wrong with that, depending on your definition of "free-mixing of opposite sex". We are grown up adults, we have to and should have learned by now to control our harmones. WE ARE NOT ANIMALS, we have the will power and choice to control ourselves. Women are as much important part of any society as men. History has shown that when women were entered into the work force in the western countries, thats when their economies got the boom. Our own Islamic history also teaches us that women were allowed to work and co-exists with the men.
i am not familiar with the term riba. would you please care to explain wut that is?
AGREED AND AGREED. it is the government's responsibilty to make sure that people find the work, they get their basic needs, and EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, they are well educated. However, the education can't only mean the Islamic teaching (thats another debate wut Islamic teaching is, anyways), it has to include the western education too. and by that i mean, not only have the knowledge of Islamic teachings and Quran, but also Mathematics, physics etc. etc.
Now to Matsui.
who said that the form of democracy that west produced is the right form of government? May be we dont' want that type of government. Maybe we want to live our lives a bit differently. I never understood why western governments want to push their idea of democracy on us?? yeah, i will agree that today most Islamic countries dont' have democratic governments, and NONE have anything closer to a true Islamic model of govt.
I agree that we can't just disown western thoughts but we have our own ideology and our history showed (maybe for a small period of time during Hazrat Umer's time, plz dont' go in a debate that why after that it didn't work) that it did work and IT WILL WORK. You said that the socities based on religion never worked. AGREED, however, the TRUE ISLAMIC STATE is not only a religious govt. It will be a state that will keep a balance between religion and govt. It wont' be something like Iran or Saudi Arabia.
Now to add to the thread.
We dont' even have a clear idea of wut a true Islamic state is? It is not wut Iran is, nor is wut Saudi Arabia is. A true Islamic state is one of biggest debate in the Islamic world and we can go on and on and on to debate wut a true Islamic state is but NOONE will agree to it. Wut is it? do we follow wut Shia's believe? or Sunnis? if we believe in Shia's Islamic state, do we follow Jafri or Zaidi? Or if you wanna follow Sunni way of life, then do we go with Ahal-hadit or Deobundi, or Bralwi.
Our Islamic world is in a huge state of confusion and crisis. Its been in it for a while and the way it looks like, it will remain in it for a longer period of time then you and me would like it to. We dont' have a definite path to follow, MOST IMPORTANTLY, we dont' have a leader to follow. Who do we listen to? how do we know he/she is not just another American/western puppet?
Yes, Islam will prevail, INSHALLAH. however, its not going to prevail just yet. Not because Americans or West wont' let it, its because, we Muslims are the ones who have deflected away from the teachings of Quran. and i don't see us going back to it in near future.
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You have to understand that Islam allows technical advancement.
These technical advancement have to be universal for the muslims to adopt.
So t.v. is allowed, as long as You dont use it for bad, like pornography.
Technological advancement does not come specifically from an ideology, it comes from people who happen to belong to a nation that implements the ideology, but not a result from their ideology.
But due to Islam, we had major pioneers in science(astronomy), mathematics(al-jabr-the guy who invented algebra), and medicine, the basics of every western advancement depends on these basic principles.
with regards to free-mixing, it means to socialise with them and not have fun and games, general chit chat, that kind of activity, is prohibited.
with regards to the culture, it is definitely corruptive: it promotes un-islamic behaviour, such as free-mixing and ill-works like cheating, gambling, drinking, especially the western culture which is shown in the media displayed in the muslim lands. every muslim country has the dish, which imports foreign culture to that of Islam. look at your example, you think its ok to watch this kind of stuff, whereas Islam prohibits this kind of culture, you thoughts regarding government and religion and them being separate is alien to islam, because Islam is the source for our government(ie: an Islamic State) whereas Islam prohibits this kind of culture: which indicates that he effect this type of culture has had on you is truly negative.
With regards to other religions living with the muslims, the most important thing that has to be realised is that Islam never allows the kuffar to stay kuffar, because they will abide in hell forever(hence they should question their beliefs in a rational maner and understand that Islam is the only way of life that offers tranquility by showing its rational belief-the miracle of the Qur'an). however under the state or even outside the state, they are not forced into accepting Islam, is another issue. islam never recognises their belief and accepts their beliefs.
Allah(SWT) says: 'any other religion will never be accepted, other than Islam.(surah 3, verse 85)
with regards to riba- it is commonly known as interest, the same interest that is crippling our muslim land, which stems from the WESTERN CULTURE.
We have to call for the rejection of the western way of life, which has caused nothing but chaos in the world: Icant even step outside of my house past 9pm, without the fear of getting attacked.
We need the Islamic State.
Allah's promise is true-it is close but we need to rise up and call for it, and work for it.