just incase, if anyone here thinks this is another anti-islamic sites, well the truth is-“La Civiltà Cattolica,” edited by a group of Jesuits in Rome, is a very special magazine. Every one of its articles is reviewed by the Vatican secretary of state before publication. So the magazine reflects his thought faithfully…Its a voice of Vatican and POPE.
Someone here, claimed minorities were well looked after in Islamic paradises…oooHH!! they shoulds read this.
well with all the bashings aside.. christian minorities r oppressed in muslim world. sad really though, countries based on Islamic values are being so hypocrite. then again they dont leave the sects of their own faith in peace..
my own opinion is that actions of Muslim countries need to be taken in context of the non-islamic culture of that region. for instance take Oman. they're a traditionally peaceful folk, they remain to be so. take the afghans, they've always been violent (as far as my reading of history goes..), they continue to be so. minorities are persecuted in africa, non-muslim countries in Africe remain some of the most violent places on the planet.
fact that christians, muslims, hindus use religion to justify their violence is not a criticism of Christianity, Islam or Hinduism, unless one supposes that religion is a magic potion that makes saints out of entire populations. that just doesnt happen.
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so you feel one should, even occasionally, look at the other side of the story?
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nope, you may choose to wear blinkers, choice is yours.
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fact that christians, muslims, hindus use religion to justify their violence is not a criticism of Christianity, Islam or Hinduism, unless one supposes that religion is a magic potion that makes saints out of entire populations. that just doesnt happen.
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you admit moslems are as good/bad as hindus or christians.
nope, you may choose to wear blinkers, choice is yours.
you admit moslems are as good/bad as hindus or christians.
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Thats a broad generalization soul. One has to be blind to say that an entire nation of Muslims, Hindus or Christians or Jews etc is bad. There are bad apples everywhere.
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Thats a broad generalization soul. One has to be blind to say that an entire nation of Muslims, Hindus or Christians or Jews etc is bad.
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where did i say all are BAD? pray!
Plz read, i said 'GOOD/BAD'.
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There are bad apples everywhere.
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So??? I wasn't the one raving about goodness of Khalifaah!!
nope, you may choose to wear blinkers, choice is yours.
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again, what do you feel one should do. look at the other side of the story or not?
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you admit moslems are as good/bad as hindus or christians.
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show me where I claimed the contrary. dont give me BS about what anyone else, im not anyone else.
how we follow religion is one more reflection of ourselves. more or less all religions share the same basic human values, because they're innate to us. I suspect inhumane religions wouldnt be very popular in the first place, unless they belonged to that draconic age where some sort of theology was crafted to ensure the upper classes were revered..ancient chinese/jap/hindu for instance.
infact, we believe that 140,000 prophets have been sent down to earth. Which gives me reason to believe that almost every existing religion would have some element of divinity in it, before it was distorted by its followers beyond recognition.
the degree to which you follow your religion, what parts you pick and choose is a reflection of who you are.
so yes, muslims are as good/bad as a group of human beings as others because we err from our religion, dont follow it at all, or follow it blindly.
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*Originally posted by ravage: *
how we follow religion is one more reflection of ourselves. more or less all religions share the same basic human values, because they're innate to us. I suspect inhumane religions wouldnt be very popular in the first place, unless they belonged to that draconic age where some sort of theology was crafted to ensure the upper classes were revered..ancient chinese/jap/hindu for instance.
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so it is not muslim first and pakistani after? interesting.
what the heck is the draconic age and what theology wad created then?
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*Originally posted by ravage: *
yeah, tis true.
my own opinion is that actions of Muslim countries need to be taken in context of the non-islamic culture of that region. for instance take Oman. they're a traditionally peaceful folk, they remain to be so. take the afghans, they've always been violent (as far as my reading of history goes..), they continue to be so. minorities are persecuted in africa, non-muslim countries in Africe remain some of the most violent places on the planet.
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A very interesting theory and maybe for once I will agree with you. BTW is it an original theory or have you heard of it elsewhere?
Umm... this isn't exactly new. The Vatican Church is the very same authority that launched over 5 Crusades against Islam that led to the slaughter of many thousands of Muslims.
Well historically a lot of things have happened between Christianity and Islam, and some of them may still influence the current issues. However, bashing the Vatican or the article is like shooting the messenger and not focussing on the core argument.
My personal view is that Islam has given enormous and unprecedented rights to minorities living under the rule of an Islamic government. 'Unprecedented' at that time, mind you. A lot of modern day western/non-muslim nations have taken these rights to a new level, for example, in US people of any faith can build a place of worship; in Singapore if the people of a certain faith get to a certain number, the government builds a place of worship for them etc. So these are examples for us on how minorities are not only accomodated but are given the perception that they are valued and appreciated.
Sadly, the muslim governments of modern day, more or less, are the worst ambassadors of Islamic teachings. Either through mis-guided comprehension of Islamic teachings, or to keep their own power base happy by crushing the minorities or simply lack of vision and resources, in many muslim countries minorities are probably not at the level where they should be.
My personal view is that in Pakistan Christians do have ample opportunities if they are willing to take them, in terms of education and employment. I didn't had a lot of interaction with Hindus, but Parsis were doing pretty well in Pakistan, with their places of worship and great businesses. Then again, my perspective is defective because I am looking at the issue from the eyes of a muslim living in a muslim-majority Pakistan. I don't know how many Christians or Hindus or Parsis will agree to the characterization that Pakistan provides equal opportunity to them. May be. May be not.
My conclusion is that whereever Pakistan stands on this issue, we can do a lot more, and some other muslim countries, especially those in the middle east should not only do more to make the minorities feel comfortable as law-abiding citizens but also to change the mind-set, if they have one, which views religious minorities as untrustworthy and suspicious.
One more thing... the article mentioned Pakistan in terms of Christians killed by violent elements in Pakistan. Thats true, but neither here nor there. There are more muslims killed in Pakistan by other muslims on religious grounds. So, the fact is that a few idiots running amock is not a charge-sheet against the whole nation.
We can't take muggings in Harlem and build a case against the whole US society. Yes, the government of Pakistan should do more to protect minorities, but they should do more to protect the lives of their majority too. Both are unsafe through the violent tactics of militant groups. Had it been a state-sponsored vigilante militias against christians, then yes, it would be troubling. Thats what happened against white farmers in Nigeria a couple of years ago. Thats bad. Some criminals gunning down a bishop is sad and unfortunate, but not a whole story on its own.
That article is very misleading. I've gotta do something right now but I'll come back later to break it down to all y'all that don't understand Italian and might be missing out on what the subject of the article actually stated.
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*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
Umm... this isn't exactly new. The Vatican Church is the very same authority that launched over 5 Crusades against Islam that led to the slaughter of many thousands of Muslims.
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Sometime in the 60s there was something called the 2nd Vatican Council, where the Pope Pius (I think) declared that the objective of the Church should be to join all the factions and come closer to other religions. Further Pope John Paul 2, asked for forgiveness in general for many crimes of the Church including the inquisition....
I think they sort of are headed in a new direction away from the old crusades.....