The uptightness of Punjabi majoritarianism

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
21

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
uh HELLO!!!

speaking from some views i've gotten from people with first hand experiences...you can certainly go to the army and apply for the job, but the punjabi will get picked over u...you can't make a claim that non-punjabis aren't doing their part or aren't doing a good job for their country. Last time I checked, Punjabis were running out of the country, just like sindhis, memons, gujratis, christians, balochis, pasthuns, seraikis, and on and on...

I think in order to support your claim, you'd have to come up with some stats that show that of all the applicants to the army, the OVERWHELMING are punjabis...then I'd buy your viewpoint that we nonpunjabis have done nothing for the country, while you punjabis have had to bear all the burdens.

FYI, speaking for memons since I am one, I think memons have made vast contributions to Pakistan...and I for one will not stand it when someone accuses the memons of contributing any less than the punjabis.
[/QUOTE]

Well sorry to give you that impresion.I dont mean to imply that you people havent contributed towards Pakistan.
My point is, that since the Army is in charge of Pakistan, it would make sense for more non Punjabis to want to join the Army. Yet they dont do this. Why is the Army filled with Punjabis??????? Because they join. Thats always been the case, even before partition, the only minorities to join the army in large numbers were the Pathans.
So a claim that you are being discriminated against because the Army is filled with Punjabis, is a joke.
Another problem I have with the Pakistani minorties is this. Punjabis are the only ones that seem to be patriotic towards Pakistan. They have no loyalties except towards Pakistan. It doesnt inspire much confidence in me when I see Sindhis thinking of themselves as a seperate country, and Pathans putting their tribes and Afghanistan before their own country, Mohajirs, who are Physically in Pakistan but emotionally in India, and the Kashmiris, who given the chance, would be a completely seperated from us.. I dont want to put anyone down, but thats just the impresion I get.
God only knows how Pakistan is managing to stay together. It appears that Pakistans borders are Punjabs borders. I dont know who is to blame for this, perhaps its we Punjabis, but I honestly dont think the we are completely to blame. Minorities have as many oppurtunities to progress as Punjabis.
Lastly, I know what its like to be a minority, I being Ahmedi, a group crapped on more often then anyone else.
While you and yours will have the pleasure of voting in a joint electorate with the rest of your countrymen, we Ahmedis will have to settle for a seprate list. See what we get for our loyalty:)

22

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
uh HELLO!!!
FYI, speaking for memons since I am one, I think memons have made vast contributions to Pakistan...and I for one will not stand it when someone accuses the memons of contributing any less than the punjabis.
[/QUOTE]

That is why you have been so anti-Punjabi??? Anywayz, I dont think memons contributed anyless than us Punjabis for Pakistan. We Punjabis are over this euphoria, but you guys are still obsessed with it. You should get your act straight, give us some real competition in business, jobs etc... Its not true what you said about the enrollment in the army... Be it Pathan, baluchi, sindhi, punjabis, all get recreuited into the army, its just that the applicants from the other three provinces are fewer.

23

Okkk lol, I stirred a hornets nest:P
To everybody, despite my criticisms of whats going in Pakistan towards minorities and how the system is imbalanced, when I say minorities bein discriminated against that includes everything from Chitralis to Hindko Speakers to Kohistanis to Makranis, as the Provinces are not based on ethnic boundaries. These issues, which are not meant to promote anti-anybody sentiments, but they need to be addressed, and we shouldn't act like ostriches. Remember by tackling these problems you strengthen a country and make people feel like its something even more worth fighting of, an injustice anywhere is a threat to Justice everywhere. I would assume talking and solving is better then rioting and fighting anytime! And while I welcome input from anybody from anywhere, if some outsider is deliberately trying to provoke arguments and fights I have nothing to do with that person and will be on the side of Pakistan irrespective.

Now to answer some questions brought up:
1) >>There have been countless leaders from these provinces.

Agreed and many of there selfish side destroyed them . But those weren't elected leaders most of the time. Ghulam Ishaq Khan was a Zia ul Haq Chamcha, for example. You often see people from smaller provinces on the verge of winning elections and then a martial law coming in. Case in point 1959 when Suhrwardy and NAP were going to win, or when the PPP-PNA had come to an angreement and Zia ul Haq went in anyway. Then the Souther Provinces have also faced the bad end of the stick when it comes to the Army, whether it was in Baluchistan in the 70's Sindh in the 80's Karachi in the 90's. Some very cruel and inhumane things happened to Pakistani people at the hands of the Army. The people never received compensation or acknowledgement. You can imagine in some of those areas because of this the Army is seen with a lot of suspicion. Then theres discrimination against Language, and being deprived of control of the resources of your Land like gas and hydro electricity. While I am not saying natural resources should be shared I believe you have to have a fair form of distribution and there has to be some reward for sacrifice. For example Quetta receiving Sui gas 20 years after the rest of the country is just sad! Or the affectess of Tarbela Damn not having received comepnsation to this day!

2)>> Punjabis are the only ones that seem to be patriotic towards Pakistan.

See now thats unfair, the other Provinces supported Pakistan to a hilt, Sindh absorbed millions of refugees, the Mohajirs lost EVERYTHING, the Pashtuns fought for Kashmir and voted in a referendum supporting Pakistan 100%, all this while Punjab was in the hands of the Landlords and Unionists who were anti Pakistani. In Sindh people vote either for the PPP or PML mainstream National Parties. In Sarhad, while the ANP is strong, 2 out of 3 people vote for National Parties. If one province only had a complaint I could say yes maybe their exaggerating, but if all 3 say the same?

3)>>I would keep quiet and stop spreading the anti-Pakistani word around.

Spock Bhai, I never said anything anti Pakistani. Speaking the truth and asking for the same rights is not anti Pakistani. Wrong is wrong, and we should fight against Zulm in any shape or form, whether being anti Punjabi or ignoring the deprivation of the smaller provinces.

24

If the provinces are divided according to ethnicities, Northern Punjab, and the Hindko belt (Hazara district) in NWFP form one province, where as the rest of the pashtun areas of NWFP and Balochistan form another province. Dera Ismael Khan, will go to the Saraiki belt of Punjab. And the central Punjab will form Punjab only. Sindh will be divided into rural and urban areas according to ethnicities. Hence Punjab will be divided in 3 areas, NWFP in 2, Balochistn in two, and sindh in two. Do you think that the Baloch's and Sindhis would accept such a division in which the Sindhis will lose Karachi, and Baloch's Quetta?

25

You don't need to divide them on ethnic basis. It depends on administrative efficiency, local needs, geography. It should be done through local consensus and choice. Look at the Swiss example, the Indians or Americans.

26

PCG bajji, I dont see the other sindhis complaining like this... The fact that you told me you were a memon didnt come as a surprise to me since you were constantly accusing us of conspiracies to supress the minorities etc... Btw, I didnt say you were anti-Pakistani, if you felt I meant that, Im sorry, I meant anti-punjabi, not anti-pakistani.

PCG, let me add, I enjoy reading some of your broadminded posts (apparently when I wrote the preceding statement before, mursalin deleted it)

27

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zakk: *
You don't need to divide them on ethnic basis. It depends on administrative efficiency, local needs, geography. It should be done through local consensus and choice. Look at the Swiss example, the Indians or Americans.
[/QUOTE]

thumbsup!

I beleive, every pakistani from which ever region does owe allegiance to Pakistan and the ensuing identity even if sporadic tensions occur. The problem is not with punjabis or pathans or sindhis. I beleive it has to do with power distribution, and it is a genuine complaint of people who voice their concerns. I dont think any one is asking for devolution based on ethnicities and language, if the power was say more evenly divided, probably no one would bother of how many langauges are spoken in punjab. Some people are concerned about the ethnic identity and consequences that may follow as a result of drawing new boudaries. I think a good solution would be to do what they have done in afghanistan in most cases. Name the provinces after the major historic or central city like city of qandahar in the provinc of qandahar, city of balkh in the province of balkh, city of herat etc... This would take care of whatever regional identity people adhere to and eliminates the risk of overshadowing the identity of other minorities based on their dialects and geography as well as the more just distribution of resources among various region of current Punjab.
OR have equal representation in the senate so that regional population density can only have effect on the national assembly.

28

Wa’Salaam Zakk, Been a bit busy with work lately. hope that all is well on your end as well.

I have looked at HDI report as well and there is NO doubt that there are problems. Pakistan (Punjab included) is a third world nation. I think that autonomy is the answer not breaking up provinces. Eventhough I am in favor of autonomy, I must include that any activities by any provinces running counter to the State of Pakistan-- ie ones that threaten the existance of the nation would be met with brute force. Autonomy should not and will not mean eventual secession. With that premise in mind, I do believe that provinces like Baluchistan and less well developed areas like Cholistan have gotten an unfair deal and should be developed.

Zakk, you are a person of rationale but honestly do you believe that the majority of Pakistanis is the same? Is the populace not sway by the lure of politicos? Imagine calling for the breakup of Sindh with the urban centers going to an urdu speaking adminstration. Do you think the Sindhi nationalists will sit back and take it easy? I think not. Furthermore it will divide and create antagonisms where none exist. For example, there would be a heavy Punjabi-Pahari divide in N.Punjab, Pashtun-Hindko one in NWFP. I sincerely believe that it runs counter to our interests as Pakistanis. Right now everryone hates Punjabis but under the division of provinces, newer antagonisms will emerge.

As for the politicians, well said. There is no doubt in my mind that politicians have ruined the country and created this hated amongst simple people. I don’t believe the army is any better. I hope to see a the day where the rulers actually care for the peoples well being.

29

I agree with Rajput, Autonomy is the best way to ensure National unity...
As long as its with limits. The Provinces should not become nation unto themselves, there has to be a strong fedral govt that has authority over them.

30

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
uh HELLO!!!

speaking from some views i've gotten from people with first hand experiences...you can certainly go to the army and apply for the job, but the punjabi will get picked over u...you can't make a claim that non-punjabis aren't doing their part or aren't doing a good job for their country. Last time I checked, Punjabis were running out of the country, just like sindhis, memons, gujratis, christians, balochis, pasthuns, seraikis, and on and on...

I think in order to support your claim, you'd have to come up with some stats that show that of all the applicants to the army, the OVERWHELMING are punjabis...then I'd buy your viewpoint that we nonpunjabis have done nothing for the country, while you punjabis have had to bear all the burdens.

FYI, speaking for memons since I am one, I think memons have made vast contributions to Pakistan...and I for one will not stand it when someone accuses the memons of contributing any less than the punjabis.
[/QUOTE]

Ok so you have SECOND hand views from people who were not accepted into the armed services. Have you ever thought of their bitterness?

You talk about the army being Punjabi dominated, yet you have no clue behind the facts. The Pakistani army is not "Punjabi" dominated, rather it is highly centralized. The Army draws heavily from the 100 mile radius of GHQ- Rawalpindi, it includes the Northern Punjab, Hazara-NWFP parts of Azad Kashmir. Since you obviously dont come from the area and speak with heavy prejudices, let me enlighten you of Pakistani history. Before the creation of Pakistan it was Punjabis and Pashtuns from the areas I mentioned that were heavily recruited into the British Army-- they fought in WWI and II fought in the Subcontinent etc. When Pakistan was being created the Muslim Pashtun and Punjabi soldiers left the Indian Army and joined Pakistan. Read up on the bio of Ayub Khan, to get a better idea. After Pakistan was created, the same situation continued because family after family, generation after generation the Army was the career goal. For example, my family is heavily in the Armed forces much like many others in the area. Not only is the armed forces a venue of expressing their patriotism but also a means of employment.

So if we talk about other provinces complaining about recruitment thinking its a bias working against them, it is not factual. The fact that they see family after family from the same area in the military does not mean the army recruits solely on nepotism, you do have pass the physical requirements, be ready for training etc. So ignorance is a dangerous game, either learn the background or don't make hateful statements.

31

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Adnan Ahmed: *
I dont want to put anyone down, but thats just the impresion I get.
God only knows how Pakistan is managing to stay together. It appears that Pakistans borders are Punjabs borders. I dont know who is to blame for this, perhaps its we Punjabis, but I honestly dont think the we are completely to blame. Minorities have as many oppurtunities to progress as Punjabis.
Lastly, I know what its like to be a minority, I being Ahmedi, a group crapped on more often then anyone else.
While you and yours will have the pleasure of voting in a joint electorate with the rest of your countrymen, we Ahmedis will have to settle for a seprate list. See what we get for our loyalty:)
[/QUOTE]

Adnan yara Don't let this BS bother you.

Ahmadis or whoever from Pakistan is a Pakistani-- PERIOD. There is no doubt that Ahmadis have gotten a raw deal but I am glad that they continue in their patriotism for Pakistan.

I think there are plenty of Sindhis, Pashtuns, Baluchis that are very strongly Pakistani, however it is the Pakistan or Punjab haters who make the most noise-- often without facts. For example, on Gupshup you see that Zakk is clearly a patriotic Pakistani and although he criticizes Pakistanis or Punjabis, I don't mind because I know that we must criticize ourselves and correct our faults. On the other hand there are people here who hate Pakistan or Punjab as is and no matter how many facts you bring up theyll still be filled with hatred in their hearts-- those are folks whose opinions I do not care for.

32

I would say full autonomy to the rpovinces within limits like RF said, obviously giving over fiscal policy defence, inter provincial communications and foriegn policy to the provinces is basically calling for a confederation, which has never worked anywhere in the World.
More importantly then just autonomy make the senate a lot stronger. It was the Senate that saved Pakistan from becoming Ittefaqistan under the 15th amendment. So basically it was Pakistanis from Karachi to Quetta and Chitral to Sahiwal who stopped a "popularly elected" Prime Minister. If that isn't a sign that citizens in Pakistan whether in the Army families or out of the Army are patriotic. I don't know what is!
So everybody please don't go into the argument of "I am more patriotic then you", thats hurtful as much as anti Punjabi racism is.

Ideally I'd prefer making more states, but I agree that could create a real mess of things:P

33

Well, I think making more provinces will just simply be a cosmetic improvement. What really needs to be done, is far more difficult.. It calls for serious soul searching. We can make millions of states, but the problems will still linger. What we need to do is redifine Pakistan.

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Re: The uptightness of Punjabi majoritarianism

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Adnan Ahmed: *

I doubt a Sindhi or Pathan or Balochi would ever consider themselves Pakistani first.

Another problem I have with the Pakistani minorties is this. Punjabis are the only ones that seem to be patriotic towards Pakistan. They have no loyalties except towards Pakistan. It doesnt inspire much confidence in me when I see Sindhis thinking of themselves as a seperate country, and Pathans putting their tribes and Afghanistan before their own country, Mohajirs, who are Physically in Pakistan but emotionally in India, and the Kashmiris, who given the chance, would be a completely seperated from us.. I dont want to put anyone down, but thats just the impresion I get.

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
Punjab will not and must not be broken up. It is a province that has been a cohesive state since the Mughals, ofcourse that includes Indian Punjab. Nonetheless, *if you call for the breakup of Punjab, then I or any other Pakistani could call for the break up for Sindh, Baluchistan and Sarhad on very similar grounds of the provinces having substantial ethnicities. *

it is the Pakistan or Punjab haters who make the most noise-- often without facts. For example, on Gupshup you see that Zakk is clearly a patriotic Pakistani and although he criticizes Pakistanis or Punjabis, I don't mind because I know that we must criticize ourselves and correct our faults. On the other hand there are people here who hate Pakistan or Punjab as is and no matter how many facts you bring up theyll still be filled with hatred in their hearts-- those are folks whose opinions I do not care for.

[/Quote]

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Spock: *
there are a bunch of ppl (another vocal majority) in Sindh, NWFP and Baluchistan who have nothing better to do but carry out a wave of *anti-Punjabi (and anti-Pakistani) propoganda and win sympathy from other anti-Pakistanis. However, I am glad the Punjabis are over this, and do not care about this, one of the very reasons they are progressing and have done so well in the field of business. These handful of people from the other provinces should learn from them and devote themselves into actually doing something for this country than to cry all the time.

[/Quote]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Akif: *
These guys should go back to worshipping a speakerphone.

[/Quote]

And they (the Punjabis) all wonder why the minorities hate them....

They doubt that anyone other than a Punjabi can be a Pakistani too, its impossible for them to assimilate this, and they still wonder "why do they hate us so much?"

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Re: Re: The uptightness of Punjabi majoritarianism

Different sahib.
Its you people that dont consider yourselves Pakistani. We didnt impose anything on you.
You will never find a Punjabi saying anything against his country, but Pathans, Sindhis, many are openly Anti Pakistan. A few months back we had atleast two Sindhi sepratists on this site. One advocated for Sindh becoming and Indian state. Not to mention the whole Pashtunistan thing.
The fact is, its you people who are against Pakistan, while we Punjabis are the all patriotic. Its you people who have given Punjabis this immpression of yourselves.
Instead barkng up the same old tree and accusing Punjabis of sidelining you people, why dont you step and refute everything I said? Prove me wrong... Are the majority Sidhis against our country, are the Pathans against our country? You tell me?

36

Its you people that dont consider yourselves Pakistani. We didnt impose anything on you.
You will never find a Punjabi saying anything against his country, but Pathans, Sindhis, many are openly Anti Pakistan. A few months back we had atleast two Sindhi sepratists on this site. One advocated for Sindh becoming and Indian state. Not to mention the whole Pashtunistan thing.

I'm still in disbelief over your statements, Adnan, I thought you were a patriot... you know the type that consider themselves Pakistanis before Punjabis or Sindhis or whatever it is that you are.

  1. I'm seeing some punjabis malign non-punjabis here by saying they're not patriotic enough. Dude, I have PRIME TV in my house. If I was not patriotic, I'd have that substandard channel out of my house, replaced with some HBO. But I dont. (Of course, this is me with some humour.)

  2. If its okay for you punjabis to get the IMPRESSION that we non-punjabis are not patriotic, then why do you guys go loco when someone comes here and says "well, the ratios are quite unbalanced in the Pak army...maybe there is some ethnic discrimination going on?". I mean, Rajputfury even ascertained that joining the military is a family kind of thing...so if you dont come from a family that doesn't have a military background, what are your chances of getting in? Lets be honest here. I'd really like to see some stats on the admissions for military service, because I think we're all assuming stuff when we dont know the facts (maybe even me), and it would be interesting to see if the majority of applicants really are punjabi, and if so... lets be productive and investigate the reasons. I doubt the reason is cuz non-punjabis are less patriotic...maybe it has to do with poor recruitment in certain areas?

Spock, you nutjob, you just went ahead and assumed so much. I only said it would be a good idea to get some stats on enrollment and on admission applications for military service before you say that non-punjabis just dont make the effort to enroll in the military. I never ascertained why or how the enrollment figures are the way they are, because frankly I dont know too much on military service in Pakland. But the FACT is that among non-punjabis the general assumption is that the military is pro-punjabi and that its hard to make it big in the military if you're not urdu-speaking or punjabi. I admit, I do lean towards this hypothesis, but again, it would really be a good idea to get some statistics on enrollment up here, if they're available.

And AGAIN, I'll say that I'm not anti-punjabi. I have nothing against the punjabi awaam, but I certainly do have a problem when policies are being made the CLEARLY favor one province over another. I dont think a whole whopping THREE provinces would blame punjab for their troubles, when they're just lazy.

As for memons giving competition to punjabis in business...HELLO...we are giving you guys competition...isn't that why the fed minister of finance is a memon?? Have u heard of Adamjee insurance, Dawood industries, etc? I dont have much interest in it, so I dont have the companies memorized, but I'll be happy to get you a friggin list if you want! fuming.

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Re: Re: The uptightness of Punjabi majoritarianism

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Different: *

And they (the Punjabis) all wonder why the minorities hate them....

They doubt that anyone other than a Punjabi can be a Pakistani too, its impossible for them to assimilate this, and they still wonder "why do they hate us so much?"
[/QUOTE]

Gee, thanks for the misconstrued interpretation. Have you been on Gupshup in the past when Punjabis from culture to language to religion were bashed non-stop? You obviously don't see the context of where were coming from. Before there would always be someone coming on with an ax to grind with Punjabis and you know what? He/She would have free run at it. Is it fair for me to bash the Pashtuns, Sindhis, Baluchis or whomever? I think not! Besides everyone would come out of the woodwork saying "oh look at the typical Punjabi chauvinist."

This is truly sad that we can evolve beyond the petty provincialism of the present. Let me be clear, I respect and admire my heritage but it does not define me. I am a Pakistani BEFORE I'm a Punjabi. I know there are problems with my country and also my province but unlike you I don't play the blame game. How many of you Punjab bashers can say the same thing?

P.S: No where did I even imply that people from other provinces are not as patriotic Pakistanis.

38

"1. I'm seeing some punjabis malign non-punjabis here by saying they're not patriotic enough. Dude, I have PRIME TV in my house. If I was not patriotic, I'd have that substandard channel out of my house, replaced with some HBO. But I dont. (Of course, this is me with some humour.)"

DUDETTE no one asked you to have Prime TV (when did it become an indicator of Patriotism?) I don't have prime TV, I don't watch Paki dramas (or any of the Indian stuff for that matter), so I guess I'm less of a Pakistani?

". If its okay for you punjabis to get the IMPRESSION that we non-punjabis are not patriotic, then why do you guys go loco when someone comes here and says "well, the ratios are quite unbalanced in the Pak army...maybe there is some ethnic discrimination going on?". I mean, Rajputfury even ascertained that joining the military is a family kind of thing...so if you dont come from a family that doesn't have a military background, what are your chances of getting in? Lets be honest here. I'd really like to see some stats on the admissions for military service, because I think we're all assuming stuff when we dont know the facts (maybe even me), and it would be interesting to see if the majority of applicants really are punjabi, and if so... lets be productive and investigate the reasons. I doubt the reason is cuz non-punjabis are less patriotic...maybe it has to do with poor recruitment in certain areas?"

Yea I said Military is a family thing-- which btw includes Hazaras and Pashtuns. I don't like to beat around the bush like you do with talking to people who were rejected, second hand guesses, wild assumptions etc. Its not about your mamays getting you in like some third rate Paki job or university, its about you passing the exams, the physicals etc. To be be fair though, having a family in the military does give an advantage in the sense that the little kids are groomed for the armed forces but hell anyone can be as smart and as fit and as patriotic. You and I know the truth that educated parents tend to have educated children, so why cry about the military? On the flip side there are countless examples of people from the underrepresented provinces of Sindh, Baluchistan being in the military. What you totally neglect is the history, read up on it and then argue about why the military is so centralized.

" never ascertained why or how the enrollment figures are the way they are, because frankly I dont know too much on military service in Pakland."

Well there you go! I think it was in my Logic & Rhetoric class that we learned to research the topic before discussing it. Besides you will never have an accurate date on enrollment in the military PERIOD.

"but the FACT is that among non-punjabis the general assumption is that the military is pro-punjabi and that its hard to make it big in the military if you're not urdu-speaking or punjabi. I admit, I do lean towards this hypothesis, but again, it would really be a good idea to get some statistics on enrollment up here, if they're available."

Wow so your saying an assumption is a FACT? inaccuracies in logic would you not agree? So let me get this straight only if your Urdu speaking or Punjabi you'll get it in? What explains the Pashtuns, Hinkians?

"And AGAIN, I'll say that I'm not anti-punjabi. I have nothing against the punjabi awaam, but I certainly do have a problem when policies are being made the CLEARLY favor one province over another. I dont think a whole whopping THREE provinces would blame punjab for their troubles, when they're just lazy."

HAH! Miss you have proven time and tim again that you hate Punjabis. I challenge you to find one message of mine in which I attacked any one province like you have..for someone whose never been to Punjab you know aweful a lot to bash the province.

"As for memons giving competition to punjabis in business...HELLO...we are giving you guys competition...isn't that why the fed minister of finance is a memon?? Have u heard of Adamjee insurance, Dawood industries, etc? I dont have much interest in it, so I dont have the companies memorized, but I'll be happy to get you a friggin list if you want! fuming."

Have nothing against Memons. Good business community, responsible for building up Pakistan in the early years in commerce. Still very dominant in business. I think it has to with the whole Gujurati thing, I mean Indian Gujuratis a renowned for business skills. In the Punjabi community (India/Pakistan) only Khatris come close but since theyre largely on the other side, I'll take them out of the calulation.

39

Re: Re: Re: The uptightness of Punjabi majoritarianism

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Adnan Ahmed: *
Different sahib.
Its you people that dont consider yourselves Pakistani. We didnt impose anything on you.
You will never find a Punjabi saying anything against his country, but Pathans, Sindhis, many are openly Anti Pakistan. A few months back we had atleast two Sindhi sepratists on this site. One advocated for Sindh becoming and Indian state. Not to mention the whole Pashtunistan thing.
The fact is, its you people who are against Pakistan, while we Punjabis are the all patriotic. Its you people who have given Punjabis this immpression of yourselves.
Instead barkng up the same old tree and accusing Punjabis of sidelining you people, why dont you step and refute everything I said? Prove me wrong... Are the majority Sidhis against our country, are the Pathans against our country? You tell me?
[/QUOTE]

A Punjabi thinks "Pakistan = Punjab".... and that's what makes all the difference....

Its obvious when most of you say "Pakistan or Punjab"... there's a big problem here....

No one would hate anyone for no reason, be honest to yourself, we all know what's happening in Pakistan (not just Punjab) since its creation.

Even the moderator (Akif) here is so ethno-centric, how can anyone expect to have a decent discussion...

40

Re: Re: Re: Re: The uptightness of Punjabi majoritarianism

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Different: *

A Punjabi thinks "Pakistan = Punjab".... and that's what makes all the difference....

Its obvious when most of you say "Pakistan or Punjab"... there's a big problem here....

No one would hate anyone for no reason, be honest to yourself, we all know what's happening in Pakistan (not just Punjab) since its creation.

Even the moderator (Akif) here is so ethno-centric, how can anyone expect to have a decent discussion...
[/QUOTE]

Yes, Punjab=Pakistan, and that a fact, and you the Non-punjabis have made it that way. Stop bitching and complaining and this wouldnt be the case. I would love to see someone say Balochistan = Pakistan, or Sindh = Pakistan. But you people always distinguish your self, especially in Sindh. There is Pakistan and here is Sindh. What the hell is that? I thought we were one country?
The reason people equate Punjab with Pakistan is because Punabis are the most patriotic of all, while the other groups simply do not think of themselves as Pakistani but something else. Im not ethnocentric at all, in fact I do not associate myself at all with Punjab. Unlike Sindhis for example, I could care less how many pieces the break Punjab into, because for me, Punjab is irrelevant. What matters is Pakistan. The fact is, that Punjabis just happen to be the most patriotic, while the rest aren't. Punjabis and to a limited extent, the Pathans, are always at the forefront, it is the Punjabis that sacrafice their lives everyday for their country. Where are the rest of you people?
Instead of barking at me, you should be refuting eveything I say, you should be saying hell, where just as patriotic as anyone else.
And the fact that you just continue to bark at me, tells me that my immpression of non-punjabis as not being patriotic is true.
I know exactly why people hate Punjabis. Being the majority always makes others angry, majorities by definition are a problem. But like I said before, you non-Punjabis have all the same oppurtunities as Punjabis do, Genral Musharaf, Ayub Khan, the Bhuttos, these people managed to succed despite the Punjabi majority. The fact that the majority of the non punjabis in our society DO not step up and take advantage is there own shortcoming.