The two Punjabis?

Arts & Culture Culture, Arts, Literature & Linguistics
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How do the two Punjabis on both sides of the border feel about each other? For example, as a Punjabi, would you prefer identifying with another Punjabi to the east of Wahga or to an Arab or Inani or even Sindhi, Baluchi. As for I have observed, the two Punjabis have a great fascination for each other especially on foreign lands.

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Re: The two Punjabis?

Please give your honest opinion beyond political considerations.

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Re: The two Punjabis?

I dont know wat to say…I have been across the border in Vagaha…apart from trying to exchange some ruppee to their rupee notes(dont ask why:D)…I would say that there wasnt the Fascination thing going on …oh waita minute…actually come to think of it…there r huge crowds coming there to watch the daily ritual between the two sides…I dont know if it was for entertainment purposes or the fascination amongst Punjabi Punjabi..:hmmm:..I’d say entertainment:)
Personally I 'd say that it really doesnt matter that its Punjabi Punjabi…more of the Muslim Muslim kinship thing is wat I have seen:) important…

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Re: The two Punjabis?

We the hell care about Punjabis on the other side.....

We are muslims...and Pakistanis...first.....

and hahaha...what a ridiculous question...they are hindus and sikhs mostly...what we have do wit that !!!!!!!!!!

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Re: The two Punjabis?

Me nothing else but paki.
And I also want musharaff to leave the country

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^^ me too...the same..... :)

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I belong to Indian punjabi family nd i know how do we respect our punjabi friends who live across the border, some of my friends relatives live in Lahore i’ve also talked to them many times who also talk to us in a decent manner, it is good to see majority of punjabiz who live in Pakistan have not been brainwashed by some fanatic mullahs like :rolleyes:

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Re: The two Punjabis?

mashallah brother I applaud your stance greatly ....I am a nonpunjabi muslim pakistani and have truely observed that a lot of my muslim punjabi friends feel very much attached culturally and linguistically to sikh and rajput hindu punjabis [esp. in North america] which is very sad, similarly lots of karachites relate to nonpunjabi hindus who have the same accent and cultural background as they have ...
these people are afflicted by the same tribalism which plagued people in the time of the Prophet[pbuh]

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yes sadly that is true …but not just for punjabis but all nationalities

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Ok we are a million time more attached to balochi/pashtoons/sindi/kashmiris/muhajir(not mqm) then we are to any one in india.
Yeah sikh speak punjabi and they respect pakistanis(not just pak-punjabi)a lot.
So talking to them don't hurt.
Good thing about most sikhs is --they don't try to put us down like some other indians do.
But Its well known fact among indians that we(pakis) care about our country and religon too much.

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i'm a punjabi...and i gotta say i feel much more close to people from this side of the border than the other one. apart from language, i really don't see anything else that ties me to them. and even the language i feel there are some differences.

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Re: The two Punjabis?

But what I've observed first-hand is that they pull-along very well with each other especially in foreign countries when they get the chance to meet each other. I have seen them showing great affection for each other.

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Reported by mercenary2k(from another thread)

Happy now?? LOD
We just proved it that we don’t like sardars too much

Dedicate a food item to a guppy
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Re: The two Punjabis?

Who is this Umair Ahamd? And how can that prove that it is a broader intra-Punjabi war in which PMs are fighting PSs?

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First tell me what does that mean

War??? buddy we crush them any day.. matter of minutes:shikari:

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intra-Punjabi means between Punjabis...And PMs mean Punjabi Musalmans and PSs Punjabi Sickhs.

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oh i c

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yes..this is true..and painful...for these people...cultural and history is more important than Religion(islam) and ideology(Pakistan)...

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Re: The two Punjabis?

There are a few exceptions but I would say in most cases regardless of whether a Muslim/Pakistani Punjabi is religious or not they will feel emotionally/sentimentally closer to fellow Muslims be they co-Pakistanis such as Pashtuns or non-Pakis such as Arabs.

The Sikhs don’t even have the decency to pronounce our name properly, instead of Muslim or Musalman they call us “Sullay”.

Of course Muslim Punjabis are just as Punjabi as Sikh Punjabis but it doesn’t mean they feel any affinity to those of the same ethnicity. The hostile attitude of non-Muslim Punjabi towards Islam even leads a lot of Muslim Punjabis to deny their ethnicity because they don’t want cultural similarities with their enemies, it’s human nature we want to be different from those who have enmity for us.

At one point maybe the two Punjabis got on with each other, at least in Muslim dominated areas because Muslims tolerated unpalatable Hindu beliefs such as Hindus treating Muslims as Maleech/Unclean yet Hindus didn’t always tolerate Muslim beliefs they find unpalatable e.g. the Muslim concept that only our way (monotheism) is salvation, even today in India you will find that “Muslims” who have made it big in India are actually bi-religious and follow a “Hindu approved” version of Islam (e.g. I heard their President Sahib prays Namaaz twice a day but is also a devotee of an idol).

Wounds are too deep.. When partition happened Punjabi Muslim women were raped by Punjabi Sikh/Hindu men and some Muslim women even committed suicide by jumping in wells to stop the Sikhs/Hindus from getting their hands on them, Sikh/Hindu Punjabis slaughtered and burnt alive train upon train, truck upon truck full of Muslim Punjabis babies and adults alike… We're not all anegls, I'm sure Muslims did similar things to them.

In India Muslims/Pakistanis are overtly demonised to evoke nationalist sentiments and the same in Pakistan towards Indians.

Of course Indo-Pak enmity over Kashmir has been a buffer in increasing tensions between the two Punjabis, plus a large chunk of both countries Armed Forces are made up of Punjabis and they’ve been at each others throats often enough.

In the UK in London and Bradford when young lads form drug gangs Sikhs have separate and sometimes rival gangs to Muslim Punjabis who usually team up with Pashtuns (both Paki and Afghan).

Muslim Punjabis will get on with anyone but even the non-devout amongst them have a high regard for their religion so they will never tolerate those who put down their religion, and Sikhs/Hindus find no bigger joy than to tell Muslim Punjabis how they were forcefully converted etc. how Hijaab and not drinking alcohol is repressive etc. and all the other hogwash they get from their Pundits.

A lot of Pakistani Punjabis, especially Freshies when they first come here will try and chummy up with Punjabis from across the border because it’s lovely to hear ones mother tongue in a foreign land but they soon back off because of the hostile anti-Muslim/Islam attitude from the Sikhs/Hindus kicks in, no Muslim wants to hear his religion slagged off, even non-practicing Muslim who don’t follow the rules and commit every sin in the book be it booze, ganja, fornication, haraam food don’t want to hear what they hold sacred being insulted…

At the end of the day religion is what matters, religion (especially ours) doesn’t just concern itself with the Temple and stories about the afterlife, it’s a way of life and even those Muslims who don’t follow it recognise it as such.. A Muslim Punjabi and a Sikh Punjabi can’t even eat the same food, the Sikh wont eat Zabeeha/Halaal and the Muslim wont eat Jhatka, Muslim Punjabis love a Beef Pilau but Hindu Punjabis consider the cow their sacred mother goddess, neither of the two communities are allowed to marry each other because there is far too much clash between religion, values and sense of right and wrong whereas a Punjabi Muslim and a Punjabi Pashtun can get married and the kid just takes on the ethnicity of their dad be he Pashtun or Punjabi and yet be at home with their mothers ethnicity..

A lot of secular people only see everything through their own glasses and only see ethnicity as important and they assume everyone else feels the same way but in the real world religion is far important to most people especially to Pashtuns and Punjabis… Religion is what matters, what is ethnicity? It’s just temporal and superficial, nothing more than a language, a form of communication, whoever speaks Punjabi as their mother tongue are Punjabi, those speak Pashto are Pashtun (ethnicities are not even racially homogenous e.g. In some Pashtun areas the people are more Turkoid, in others they’re more Caucasoid, in others Dravidianised and in others a mixture).

Pakistani Punjabis are Muslim and there’s nothing with identifying as Punjabi but their affinity should be with fellow Pakistanis/Muslims of other ethnicities rather than Indian Sikh Punjabis, from my experience that’s the way it is, the only “affection” I see between Muslim Punjabis and Sikh Punjabis is between Muslim boys and Sikh girls which has caused the local Sikhs to get their Kaachas in a twist and they tried chummying up with racist far-right BNP against the Muslims/Pakistanis..

Back at school this one Punjabi Sikh tried chatting up a Pashtun kids sister, the kid was in yr 7 but his older mates in yr 11 (Punjabi Muslims) beat the living daylights out the Sikh for their mate so Muslim Punjabis don’t put ethnicity over religion (Islam)/nationality (Pakistaniyat) at all.

I think Muslims are always more at home with other Muslims, some try cosying up to non-Muslims and it’s doable at first but then you get tired of constantly being “apologetic” and constantly correcting misconceptions, it’s also quite frustrating when the other side is not interested in the reality and seeing both sides of the coin to come to a mutual understanding but they have the “we’re all right you’re all wrong no matter what” sort of an attitude. Gets a bit too much when all you want to do is chill and get on with your life, it’s easier when with your own religion, there’s no friction, I mean if my friend has a beard and I don’t I wont criticise him for it even if I don’t have one because we believe the same thing, I know it’s the right thing to do and I’ll respect him, whereas a non-Muslim (not all) would be insensitive/ignorant about his religious practice, same with Hijab..

At the end of the day we Muslims have to stick together, ‘assabiyyah (partisanship based on race/ethnicity/tribe rather than Deen) is forbidden in our religion, it leads to pride/haughtiness/arrogance and racism/fascism. All Pakis are Muslim brothers regardless of whether we're Punjabi, Kashmiri, Pashtun, Urdu, Balochi or Sindhi.

Ethnicity is not everything mate, our Muslim brothers from Eastern Europe were blue eyed, blonde haired, white skinned Aryans like their co-ethnic neighbours, they spoke the same dialects, ate the same food, wore the same dress, enjoyed the same music as their co-ethnic neighbours, they even went against their religion to eat pork, drink alcohol and some even married their daughters to their Christian co-ethnicmen. They weren't Muslim in much more than name but when their Christian co-ethnicmen committed genocide against them they didn't care how irreligious they were, mere association with Islaam was enough, whilst slaughtering them they would skin their elbows with razors telling them we're doing this because these are the areas you Muslims wash in Ablution (Wudhu). Being as White/Aryan as a Kosovon or as secular/agnostic as a Chechnian doesn't come in handy.

Reminds me of a Hadith "Whoever seeks to please Allaah by making people angry, Allah will protect him from people; whoever seeks to please people by making Allaah angry, Allaah will leave him to the people".

Or take closer to home in Gujarat, same case in India where it's common for Muslims to intermarry with Hindus and constantly prattle on of their patriotism to India and disdain for Pak till they go blue in the face to prove their loyalty to their Hindu masters, all that didn't help them when their Gujarati co-ethnicmen of the Hindu religion slaughtered them and burnt them alive in their houses all because of a train fire due to technical fault which got blamed on them (in India every ill is blamed on Muslims and every glorious thing attributed to Hindus: Muslims are terrorists and Hindus built the Taj Mahal).

Take more recently when the bombs went off in that Mosque in Hydrobad killing Muslims.. Who gets blamed? Hindu (Indian) media blames it on Muslims even though it was Muslims who were martyred.

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Re: The two Punjabis?

I dont feel close to any of them. I'm not a Panjabi :-)