Your logic holds no weight whatsoever. Do you people honestly think before writing? why do we have two lungs? :D can you reject any one of your lung? how about kidneys? If i take your interpretation of coming of Esa AS and Imam Mahdi, do you honestly think whoever will accept Imam Mahdi will accept Esa AS , or the other way around?...
why do US govt have a vice president? its because if one of them fails to rule the country the way it should be ruled, the other person can guide him. They are not divinely guided. Are you then saying that the purpose of Esa AS's second coming would be to give advices to Imam Mahdi AS ? if so, which one of them will be divinely guided? do you then say that one of them COULD fail to lead Muslim ummah? and hence will be in need of the other's help? because in this case, you probably chose a wrong Imam Mahdi.. and uh!! he wont be the one at fault. He will tell you that i told you in the first place , i never was an imam Mahdi, but was 'convinced' to be one.
Just making claims and accusations is not the right way.
My response was based on your questions and my assessment of your mental capabilities. I stand corrected and my doubts have been removed.
Such a thing is there to make sure that Mahdis don't keep popping up.
LOL as you know every so often a person gathers a few followers and makes such a claim even now. Knowing full well the conditions.
Imagine what would happen if that was not the condition..we would have mahdis fighting eachother all over the globe claiming the caliphate.
which one of the claimants of being Imam Mahdi AS resembles the one mentioned in Ahadith? Do you reject the lunar and solar eclipse prophecy for the coming of Imam Mahdi AS? Him NOT CLAIMING will be a huge issue for you people.. you people will KEEP ON switching imam mahdi , one after another, thinking each one of them to be theee one. Claiming of being Imam Mahdi and seeing the heavenly signs is enough for a God fearing person to accept the Imam that prophet Muhammad PBUH gave us the good news about.
which one of the claimants of being Imam Mahdi AS resembles the one mentioned in Ahadith? Do you reject the lunar and solar eclipse prophecy for the coming of Imam Mahdi AS? Him NOT CLAIMING will be a huge issue for you people.. you people will KEEP ON switching imam mahdi , one after another, thinking each one of them to be theee one. Claiming of being Imam Mahdi and seeing the heavenly signs is enough for a God fearing person to accept the Imam that prophet Muhammad PBUH gave us the good news about.
Dont be a scatter brain. Stick to the topic and subsequent arguments being presented here.....you are all over the place. Compose yourself duuude!
Sorry but had to relegate you to a duuuude level. You are not a "Mr." yet.
Just making claims and accusations is not the right way.
My response was based on your questions and my assessment of your mental capabilities. I stand corrected and my doubts have been removed.
Now your above comment shows you are losing it.
peace be on you brothre fayax,
do tell me where im losing it? My questions to you were legit, and hence, you fail to answer me and came up with this comment. your logic was proven false just now. Was it not? US govt is not divinely guided. Hence in need of vice president and so forth. A person sent from Allah almighty will be of at no error. He will not need anyone else as his help. Allah will be on his side.
What doubts do you say have been removed? doubts now started to emerge.
I dont like repeating myself but here it is once more for the one’s dont get it the first time.
Just making claims and accusations is not the right way.
Stick to the point and I will discuss OR I can have a more productive discussion with a 12 year old.
Dont be a scatter brain. Stick to the topic and subsequent arguments being presented here.....you are all over the place. Compose yourself duuude!
Sorry but had to relegate you to a duuuude level. You are not a "Mr." yet.
Being a mod would by no means give u the title of a "Mr." either. I am very well sticking to the topic and my response was to you when you said he AS WILL NOT claim to be the imam mahdi. You failed to tell me why when asked?
By all all means if u want a duuuuude to defeat you in such arguments. Np, you calling me duuuude.
Answer the question i raised and we will be good from there on.
Where is the 'claim ’ and where is the ‘accusation’ you see? I asked this :
bold and red highlights are for you to answer me.. or you can seriously say that you are not qualified enough to answer these question and let someone else answer them for you.
so you can have a ‘productive’ discussion with a 12 year old? this is how much you know of ur beliefs? even 12 year old will have the same questions I have. Consider me 12 year old for now , and lets have the productive discussion.
Yeah I am not qualified to talk to someone who doesnt understand. Sorry not trained in that area.
And since your counter question is always why ? why two? why what?
Here is my scholarly response to you:
Why ask why?
Oh ok i understand your frustration brother. You know i'm deeply very sorry if you found my responses to you as offensive. I, by no means meant to do so. They are serious questions for one to think about. You said that you're not qualified to talk to somoene who doesnt understand?.. not even once have you tried to make me understand and to explain me why the questions that arise in a 12 year old kid ( that is me, according to you ) are baseless.
Strange how there is no question of WHY in the questions i raised. Here are the questions for you to wonder again.
[QUOTE]
How absurd is the idea of him not claiming to be Mahdi. You give people's choice more priority than Allah's choice? When He Himself will say that he is NOT the mahdi, how dare any pious, God fearing person would try convincing the person of what he is not?Has Allah ever done such a thing before? that is, let the people of the world decide who it is thats been sent by Allah ?and Allah will accept him as the imam Mahdi JUST BECAUSE people of the world wanted him to be imam mahdi?
[/QUOTE]
I just think my minuscule attempts to answer questions can be more fruitful to the ones to care to ask questions and then learn OR present counter arguments that present a challenge to me to prove otherwise. But these are not matters where I can present scientific proof as such. And I think you know it well too.
IF I was frustrated or offended, I would clearly say that I am frustrated or offended.
peace again fayax,
I never asked for any scientific proof. All i asked was if such a thing of one not claiming to be what he was .. happened earlier in the history of Islam? History needs no scientific proof. If it happened, then it has. Theres nothiing to prove from science in this regard. Read the questions again, and if you have the answer for it please do let me know. Again, needs no scientific explanation to them.
The signs of true Mahdi were given to us my Mohammad PBUH. These signs were given and they include items such as him not claiming the leadership role...among other signs.
I am not making these signs up ..I am just stating them as they were stated by the Prophet in ahadeeth. Everything that will happen was told to us by the Prophet during one of his lectures that lasted from fajr to maghrib. I am sure you can search the net and find the details from some reliable source.
Being a mod would by no means give u the title of a "Mr." either. I am very well sticking to the topic and my response was to you when you said he AS WILL NOT claim to be the imam mahdi. You failed to tell me why when asked?
By all all means if u want a duuuuude to defeat you in such arguments. Np, you calling me duuuude.
Answer the question i raised and we will be good from there on.
What does being a mod have anything to do with anything? When did I say anything that had anything to do with me being a mod. Forget that I am mod and start the reading of this thread from post #1 and maybe get a gist of the thread.
Again neither me being a mod, NOR cryptozoology has anything to do with it.
sorry about that buddy, but you said i was not entitled to be Mr. . Hence, i said in reply that being a mod would not make you a Mr. either. Why do you forget what the context to what im responding you to?
The signs of true Mahdi were given to us my Mohammad PBUH. These signs were given and they include items such as him not claiming the leadership role...among other signs.
I am not making these signs up ..I am just stating them as they were stated by the Prophet in ahadeeth. Everything that will happen was told to us by the Prophet during one of his lectures that lasted from fajr to maghrib. I am sure you can search the net and find the details from some reliable source.
Oh ok. But im not sure if i'll be able to find the answers to the questions im looking for.
Him not claiming to be mahdi will be a big chaos in the world. Each tribe, region , culture will have their own type of Mahdi. How can there ever be a consensus amongst the whole of Muslim Ummah regarding one Imam Mahdi who will not claim to be Imam Mahdi?... are we sure we havent missed him already?
Already has several other conditions. His, name by birth, his character, his lineage, even to the point that some of his facial features have been described. I am not sure about the authenticity of one as opposed to the others.
[QUOTE]
This announcement which will be heard by all those present will establish his authenticity. Another sign which will indicate the authenticity of Imaam Mahdi will be that in the Ramadhaan prior to his emergence an eclipse of the sun and the moon
will occur.
[/QUOTE]
The world stay witness, people of that time stayed witness, western world stayed witness. This prophecy has been come to its fulfillment.
taken from the site you posted :
[QUOTE]
Hadhrat Abu Saeed khudri (R.A.) relates that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, "Al Mahdi will be from my progeny
[/QUOTE]
There is another hadith which is like .. a sahabi asked Muhammad Mustafa PBUH , which tribe will Imam Mahdi AS appear from. After asking three times, prophet raised His hand to the only non-arab sitting there , Hazrat Suleman Farsi RA, and said if faith is to go up in the heavens , people or a person from amongst him will surely bring it back.
Being from his progeny means He AS will be a follower of Muhammadi SAW shariyah. Quran tells us that Muhammad PBUH is not the father of any of you men, but on other hand followers of Muhammad PBUH are referred to as His spiritual family. ( correct me if im wrong here, i m pretty sure i have read this verse, will post if need arise. )
taken from the site you posted.
[QUOTE]
He will receive Knowledge from Allah.
[/QUOTE]
prophets of Allah receive knowledge from Allah almighty. Question still remains, what will the role of Isa AS if both of them will be divinely guided. Please do not bring the logic of US govt having vice president. Allah will give different knowledge to Imam Mahdi AS and different to Isa AS ? how would both of the knowledge reconcile? who will have more priority over the other? an Imam Mahdi AS who will NOT say he is the awaited Mahdi or the previous prophet Of Allah ?
PS: ISA (AS) is none other than Imam Mahdi himself. There is no need for Allah to send someone who he sent to people of Israel and Imam Mahdi who will not claim to be imam Mahdi AS.
PS: ISA (AS) is none other than Imam Mahdi himself. There is no need for Allah to send someone who he sent to people of Israel and Imam Mahdi who will not claim to be imam Mahdi AS.
Ah so now I see what point you are getting at. Fair enough if you think that is the case.
Now if we are going to present arguments for and against that one point...I am sure I can accommodate that. But then again we are not going to make claims and say "I THINK" and no claims like "PS: ISA (AS) is none other than Imam Mahdi himself." Saying two things are one and the same is like what Christians did at the Nicene meeting, i.e., trinity. But thats deviating from the topic.
So you are basing a theory simply on an assumption that Allah doesnt need two 'guiders' at the same time and claiming that Mahdi and Eisa (A.S.) is one and the same? Source for that claim?
I have already told you there has been many times when there was more than one prophet to the same area (geographic) at one time. So questioning why two are needed and then making them one is not a valid reasoning on your part.
Ah so now I see what point you are getting at. Fair enough if you think that is the case.
Now if we are going to present arguments for and against that one point...I am sure I can accommodate that. But then again we are not going to make claims and say "I THINK" and no claims like "PS: ISA (AS) is none other than Imam Mahdi himself." Saying two things are one and the same is like what Christians did at the Nicene meeting, i.e., trinity. But thats deviating from the topic.
So you are basing a simple theory that Allah doesnt need two 'guiders' at the same time and claiming that Mahdi and Eisa (A.S.) is one and the same? Source for that claim?
I have already told you there has been many times when there was more than one prophet to the same area (geographic) at one time. So questioning why two are needed and then making them one is not a valid reasoning on your part.
source of whatever i have said about Jesus AS has been provided in my other thread of " Is Isa AS alive. In the light of Quran and hadith". Participate in that thread and we'll talk about it too.
as for the topic in hand , that is Imam Mahdi AS, you are yet to give me some explanations on why he AS will not claim to be Imam Mahdi AS. Without one question answered, it isnt wise to jump to another.
what do you say about the lunar and solar eclipse prophecy?
I never refuse the fact that there were more than 2 prophets at a time (geographically), but then again, im also not saying that each one of the prophets had their own way of preaching the true teachings. But in case of Imam Mahdi AS, we see that he will be a military ruler, while Jesus AS will be spiritual? can a non-muslim be ok with the conclusion that Islam was and will be spread by the power of sword?..
PS: i see how you emphasized more on my PS than the rest of my post. i.e: lunar solar eclipse prophecy, him receiving knowledge from Allah, Him being from Muhammad PBUH's progeny. Will it be ok if i say that you agreed with me on those issues?