the TO Raptors

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1

what do you think is the main problem with the Raptors. they were doing so well three or four years ago and they’ve managed to self destruct in the last couple of years. it is hard to imagine that this Raptors team would’ve made it to the finals (or was it the semis) had Carter not missed THAT shot.

when Butch Carter left, and Wilkens signed on things looked bright. the honeymoon lasted one season. Carter sat out the season after. all of a sudden Davis started whining like a 2 year old about rings etc. btw, I absolutely hate Davis. Wilkens forgot he had a team to coach; it wasn’t going to coach itself. “winningest” coach, my ass, somehow people forget to mention that he is also the “losingest” coach in the league too. anyway the circus continued for a couple of years more before changes were made.

in came O’Neil with his reputation as a hard taskmaster. things looked good once again. and then we managed to land Rose and Marshall and somehow Carter managed to stay relatively injury free. despite having some potent offensive ammunition (Carter, Marshall, Rose, Bosh, Williams), something we struggled with in the past, things still managed to blow up as usual.

what in your opinion is the problem with this team given that they were perhaps the most improved team at some stage of their young NBA life? what do you think the Raps should do with Carter given that there have been trade rumours about him flying around? is it really Carter’s fault as a leader that this team doesn’t win? did O’Neill deserve to be fired after just one season in your opinion?

lets hear what changes you wanna see for next season. :slight_smile:

2

sambrialian, I don't know much about Raptors. I am sure Diablo Kazama and Zoab_Khan must have more knowledge about the franchise than I do. However, the main problem starts from the top. 36 days left for 2004-05 draft and Toronto doesn't have a GM yet! Heard about Dr. J report being a new GM for Raptors but still it's not confirm.

The coaches system blew up in faces. In his own words, he demanded 'defensive accountability'. Even to the point of refusing to mask certain players deficiencies, and even letting them get torched by the same player over the course of a single week. Raptors hired a defence first coach, when all of the key players are offence first guys. It didn't work. They were not able to reinvent themselves and the slow-it-down system was a disaster.

Another biggest problem rightnow is salary structure for Raptors. Two max contracts at the two worst positions to have max contracts at. Raptors have serious depth issues, and the only way to address it any time soon is to trade one of those contracts. Jalen is unmovable, and if Vince Carter is traded people will cry like they have never cried before.

As for the next season, main players on Raptors roster, will probably look like this:

    1. Chris Bosh: Awsome season and he was only 19 unheard of for a big man.
    1. Vince Carter - not coming of an injury or surgery & not playing for the US Olympic team + the best supporting cast he has ever had could be good.
    1. Robert Archibald: Okay, don't laugh now. I actually think he could be a rotation player in some games. If you have 2 scorers on the floor, Arch would be a good player to set picks, rebound and muscle up on other big men. He is young, hard working, coachable and cheap but I am not sure Raptors organization will even keep him.
    1. Lottery pick: Depending on where the Raptors pick this could give Toranto 3 allstars/franchise players (Carter/Bosh/2004 pick)

Back to the topic, it will once again all depend on Carter but Carter played well last year and almost averaged 20, 5, and 5 for the first time in his career. What Raps need is a true playmaker not Jalen. Maybe Raps can package Jalen for a quality big man if they can get a reliable PG in the draft.

Raps need a consistent sixth man if Morris Peterson is gone which looks like it. Maybe Jackson but he will be looking for big bucks. Raps need a reliable big man off the bench which is in shambles. Last year additions have been horrible and terribly inconsistent. I like Marshall and if Raps can get a legitimate C and SF, he would make a quality sixth man but he has shown in the past that he doesn't respond well coming off the bench. Bosh is good at PF.

As you can see the new GM has a lot to do who hasn't been named yet.

What Raps need is a core team that can stay together for at least 3-5 years so that they can bond and play more effectively. Free agency won't perfect this team but Raps sure can add some depth over the last few years. I think that most of the players in the second round will be signed this year and there should be a lot of decent players floating around.

Hopefully, the Raps will do very well next season, the fans deserve it.

3

thanks for your excellent post, PT. you made some very good points in there man. I must say I don't know too much about basketball, only been following it for a couple of years, so am afraid I didn't catch all the points of your post. anywhoo...

your point about the Raps being an organizational mess is very valid. just today I was reading that some potential coaching candidates have refused to talk to the Raps management until they hire a new GM. so they should get a move on in that regard. yeah, I heard about Dr. J too. lets see what happens. I would much rather get a guy with some business accumen but a lot of people seem to respect this guy.

I don't know what happened with the O'Neil situation. I was hoping the dude would actually whip this team in shape 'cause they've often been accused of not trying hard enough or giving up too early in the past. O'Neil with his rep as a tough ringmaster should've been able to correct this. but he's gone...

yeah, Bosh did really well for a rookie. personally I don't think Rose or Marshall are going away 'cause otherwise we only have one guy who's good on the offence - Carter. I would be willing to let go of Marshall but not of Rose. Maybe he doesn't fit in the scheme of things and he's definitely overpaid but I'm a fan of his from his Indiana Pacer days. he's got a lot character, maybe playing at point is his problem? This Archibald character I don't know.

but the Raps should definitely get rid of lamers like Mo Pete. the guy is such an underachiever. gets 20 points once like every 30 games and won't shut up about it once he gets them. I think the main problem with the Raps is that they just let things float for too long hoping that they'd fix themselves. a laidback coach like Wilkens, a whiner of a co-captain in Davis and a consistent underachiever like Mo Pete should've been thrown out some time ago and not allowed to linger around the franchise for as long as they did or have. when you have your captain selling his home in TO and complaining about his kids being taught the metric system etc, how's the team supposed to stay focused especially when your franchise player is out with injury too. did I mention before that I absolutely hate Davis?

4

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sambrialian: *
yeah, Bosh did really well for a rookie. personally I don't think Rose or Marshall are going away 'cause otherwise we only have one guy who's good on the offence - Carter. I would be willing to let go of Marshall but not of Rose. Maybe he doesn't fit in the scheme of things and he's definitely overpaid but I'm a fan of his from his Indiana Pacer days. he's got a lot character, maybe playing at point is his problem?
[/quote]

Salary cap is a problem for Raps. I don't think you'd like to see Carter leaving TO who has a max contract, do you?

Jelen, on the other, has a big contract. You can trade him for 2 or even 3 players. Veteran players I'd suggest since the Raps market is small; and they'll come handy, cheap. $ 1.5-2 Million. That's my point.

It seems as if some people are just calling for a trade just for trade's sake. If Carter happens to be traded, the toll will last on the Raps for quite sometime unless he is traded straight up for another legitimate superstar. The Raptors aren't gonna get a star unless they trade Carter (in which case they could get rid of some expensive contracts too).

Look at Memphis. How long it took them to get where they are, same goes for Denver. Wonder how many years it will take Atlanta to 'rebuild'

What Raps need is a point guard who can collapse defenses and free up Vince Carter. I think Steve Nash, Speedy Claxton and Earl Watson will be free agent in the summer. If Raps can get any of them, you guys will be fine. These are realistic options.

[quote]
*Originally posted by sambrialian: *
but the Raps should definitely get rid of lamers like Mo Pete. the guy is such an underachiever. gets 20 points once like every 30 games and won't shut up about it once he gets them.
[/quote]

This year he didn't play like he wanted a big contract, so none will come his way. A reasonably small contract ($2M/year) would be fine. He is a tireless defender and a great three-point shooter. I think Raps should be resigned on a team where they aren't good defenders. Valuable on any team.

All this can happen once Raps named the GM.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sambrialian: *
when you have your captain selling his home in TO and complaining about his kids being taught the metric system etc, how's the team supposed to stay focused especially when your franchise player is out with injury too. did I mention before that I absolutely hate Davis?
[/QUOTE]

I bet Vince won't be injured from now on. His fiancee is a Doc. Do you know he's getting married in July this year?

5

Re: the TO Raptors

Originally posted by sambrialian: *
**what do you think is the main problem with the Raptors. *

they are canadian..better suited for ice hockey and curling ;)

*lets hear what changes you wanna see for next season. :) *

move them to US and they will be okay.

6

Re: Re: the TO Raptors

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Fraudz: *
*Originally posted by sambrialian: *
**what do you think is the main problem with the Raptors. *

they are canadian..better suited for ice hockey and curling ;)

*lets hear what changes you wanna see for next season. :) *

move them to US and they will be okay.
[/QUOTE]

I can stand ice hockey and I see myself getting into it in a little while but there is no way curling and I could mix.

jahan tak US move karnay kaa sawal hay, man the Vancouver team's gone already, at least leave one up here. besides, this team was doing VERY well especially for a young franchise just some years ago. they're capable of matching that if we get a good coach and Carter resdiscovers his golden touch. he is one of the top stars of the league after all.

7

yeah i was kidding about moving them.
the decline of raptors is strange, did they start doing badly or did the other teams move their game up a notch. eitherway there does not seem to be just one major reason that could contribute to it.

8

true. Carter moving away from TO will be the death of the Raptors IMO. he may not be winning rings here but only he has the charisma and star power to keep the fans coming despite their pathetic record.

having Nash would be sweet but realistically speaking that’s not going to happen. Dallas will prolly offer him a large contract anyway, this is what Cuban was saying. also, his playing style does not fit very well with the Raps offense imo. but if he does come as unlikely as that is it will be a big improvement on our point guards of the past.

I want Peterson gone. period. I don’t care if he’s a defender or what else. he should have left with Davis for Chicago. instead they gave away JYD - one of the few very guys who worked hard for the Raps. :disgust:

Carter’s fiancee isn’t a real doc. :smiley: she’s a chiropractor which is still all the more reason for him to stay injury free from now on.

9

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
the decline of raptors is strange, did they start doing badly or did the other teams move their game up a notch.
[/QUOTE]

a bit of both but more of the former than the latter, IMO. teams like Nets, and Pacers lifted their game over the last couple of years while the Raps were letting theirs slip.

yeah, there's a whole myriad of reasons why this team has declined so much so fast. the biggest mistake they made, IMO, was offering huge contracts to aging players who were unworthy of them and were either well past their prime or would soon be anyway. like bring Hakeem to the Raps - what a disaster. giving JYD and Davis big, long contracts was a blunder too. I mean they're alright players but they got way more than their market value. this screwed the Raps over for the last couple of years. no one wants an over-expensive, inflated 36-37 year old who's always pining and whining for the ring when he's not even pulling his own weight.

10

well hmmm you guys pretty much talked in detailed of every aspect of this team in terms of its failure and success.

lakin i think Rapotrs failed that very day when they lost against NY in playoffs and hmm butch carter having probs with tracy and some other players regarding the amount of playing time that should be given to tracy or vince.

so hmm vince kinda telling tracy that its my team bcz i am the hero and you could tag along but dont try all that to over-power me lol...

so phir tracy getting traded was the first move that took rapz down really badly. and then trading douge chrisite was another dumb move.

hmmm but in my opinion departure of tracy was the downfall of rapz!

and hmm then we did hear of tades of abdur-rahim/rashid wallace etc and not getting able to make those trades/frequent injuries of vince and him being the only allstar and expecting so much out of him made him kinda proudy and had all that attitude which really hurt the team moral.