Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
dont mention IRI too much, some ppl dont like IRI around here :) she is the most popular leader in pakistan today because she has a pwerful family name, and then look at ppl she is up against nawaz, fazl, etc :D
The political leadership likes it so what the heck hey.
As for why she is popular, I dont know. I was just trying to correct m2k when he said that Pakistani's don't want her back.
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
But what about the corruption charges against her and her husband?
I cant believe that many Pakistanis are so naive to think that her regime wasn't corrupt
Seriously, during her tenure, what did she get done?
She didn't do anything that hasn't been done in the present regime.
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
She didn't do anything that hasn't been done in the present regime.
so, you just want to replace one bad egg with another bad egg that has proven that is is a bad egg?
what would that do?
so you are saying all that is bad now was also bad under her.
the second question was ..what did she accomplish?
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
btw I think People's party is a good party in general, but I dont understand why they are so strapped for leadership that she is still a chairperson. I mean she is nowhere close to being as influential or accomplished as Maggie thatcher...but what is thatchers role in teh tories? what is billclinton's role in the dems? heck what was reagen's role in GOP?
why cant we just move beyond the same set of feces we see on top of our political parties all the time?
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
^^
i think your missing Flame's point
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
so, you just want to replace one bad egg with another bad egg that has proven that is is a bad egg?
what would that do?
so you are saying all that is bad now was also bad under her.
the second question was ..what did she accomplish?
If people want the bad egg in question, what can we do? It's not my call. If people want her, why should we object? Let them make mistakes. The error most of make is when we take the whole nation as stupid idiots. It's not an easy task asking for votes in Urban Pakistan. Just ask Sheeda Talli. With the current media boom, and the dwindling voter turn outs of the late 90's, I personally don't think any political party can afford to deliberately perform poorly. Sure there will be corruption. But we conveniently forget the genesis of corruption in Pakistani politics. We forget that for all his faults, ZAB was never convicted for corruption. We forget that it was one Humayun Khan of Akhtar Khan who beat his chest and boasted the millions of dollars his father bequeathed to him. I have no reason to believe Musharraf's regime is any less corrupt. Just wait till he's out of power. Already I read in a paper that each of his close generals is worth $3.5 million. Amazing eh? And we blame our politicians.
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
hey man, I am all for elections, as I said, ppl in pakistan have to live with their decisions.
I am niether in favour of corrupt officers, yiu can go way back and search for my questions about how much these ppl make and howcome their kids drive porsches and go to harvard and boston university..:) i guess i may have just given away who I was talking about.
I want to see results, whether its benazir, musharraf or kafeel bhai. I think political leaders also owe the nation some info on how they plan to address these issues. being anti govt is all fine and dandy, but how do they plan to combat militancy, how do they deal with FATA, how would they deal with US pressure, etc etc.
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
^^
i think your missing Flame's point
not at all, I got the point and asked a question.
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
She didn't do anything that hasn't been done in the present regime.
I disagree.
A lot has been done under Musharraf's regime.
Our Forex has grown to record numbers. Our Stock market, our economy has also grown.
Gwadar Deep Sea Port is build. The Coastal highway connecting Karachi to Gwadar is build.
Many other mega projects are being build such as the Karachi Expressway, Lahore Ring road, Sugarland City in Karachi, Karachi Waterfront, etc...
The only thing that got done under Benazir's tenure was modification to the Nawaz Sharif's Lahore to Islamabad road which got shortened from 6 lanes to 4.
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
hey man, I am all for elections, as I said, ppl in pakistan have to live with their decisions.
I am niether in favour of corrupt officers, yiu can go way back and search for my questions about how much these ppl make and howcome their kids drive porsches and go to harvard and boston university..:) *i guess i may have just given away who I was talking about. *
hehe. yeah.
I want to see results, whether its benazir, musharraf or kafeel bhai. I think political leaders also owe the nation some info on how they plan to address these issues. being anti govt is all fine and dandy, but how do they plan to combat militancy, how do they deal with FATA, how would they deal with US pressure, etc etc.
I think on terrorism issue at least, PPP has come out with the most clear cut policy. I don't know if BB is advocating tougher measures against militants only to please her way into power or if she really means it, but her policy can be gauged from her statements fairly easily. At least for FATA, just a few days back PPP asked the govt. to allow main stream political parties to work in the area.
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
I disagree.
A lot has been done under Musharraf's regime.
Our Forex has grown to record numbers. Our Stock market, our economy has also grown.
Gwadar Deep Sea Port is build. The Coastal highway connecting Karachi to Gwadar is build.
Many other mega projects are being build such as the Karachi Expressway, Lahore Ring road, Sugarland City in Karachi, Karachi Waterfront, etc...
The only thing that got done under Benazir's tenure was modification to the Nawaz Sharif's Lahore to Islamabad road which got shortened from 6 lanes to 4.
Is an ordinary Pakistani better off today than he was 8 years ago. Sadly, none of us is able to answer that. Most of us don't even belong to the middle class. I have always given Musharraf credit for his economic policies, at the same time however, he is also guilty of protecting huge cartels in oil/gas, sugar and cement. A little known fact: CJP had issued notices to Shell/PSO/Caltex/ OGRA secretary, Finance Secretary to drag their asses to his court and answer for the high prices of oil. Similarly a case was pending against cartelization of sugar industry. I read a news strip on AAJ TV today that CJP had put some guys in sugar industry on notice already. First day at work.
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
hehe. yeah.
I think on terrorism issue at least, PPP has come out with the most clear cut policy. I don't know if BB is advocating tougher measures against militants only to please her way into power or if she really means it, but her policy can be gauged from her statements fairly easily. At least for FATA, just a few days back PPP asked the govt. to allow main stream political parties to work in the area.
dude, aside from PPP has any party even bothered to put two coherent thoughts on paper. I see a lot of yip yap but nothign more. The actions of PPP are indeed commendable in this regard.
I have never been a benazir fan, but if she has teh right approach to solve the militant problem, I am all for her. Because if this problem is not solved all our other advances will roll back, foriegn investments by corporations as well as by expats will dwindle, and as far as real estate goes, we know what happens to prices there.
To me a successful solution is going to be an PPP-MQM alliance (they simply will have to work with MQM) and with musharraf as a civilian president who slowly fades out of the picture.
I do wish they keep shaukat aziz involved but not as a PM, he still has much he can do as a finance minister
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
Is an ordinary Pakistani better off today than he was 8 years ago.
Absolutely he is.
Economy has grown, Pakistanis have the ability to make money, start venture capitalist businesses, poverty has been reduced and literacy rate has grown from 37% to over 50%. And this is not me, its the UN statistics. Go check the UN site for that.
Sadly, none of us is able to answer that. Most of us don't even belong to the middle class. I have always given Musharraf credit for his economic policies, at the same time however, he is also guilty of protecting huge cartels in oil/gas, sugar and cement.
Look Musharraf is not an innocent person. He has done some bad stuff. But compared to our other leaders, his negatives far outweigh the positive things he has done for Pakistan
Such as the 50 TV Channels in Pakistan and more coming. Musharraf did that.
A little known fact: CJP had issued notices to Shell/PSO/Caltex/ OGRA secretary, Finance Secretary to drag their asses to his court and answer for the high prices of oil. Similarly a case was pending against cartelization of sugar industry. I read a news strip on AAJ TV today that CJP had put some guys in sugar industry on notice already. First day at work.
AAJ TV is wholly anti-musharraf.
thats the problem with our media. they are so anti-establishment in their thinking that they beleive that by insulting the government or being anti-government that they are exercising their freedom of speech.
journalists need to present news from a neutral standpoint.
sadly, our news and media has a long way to go as its just in its infancy
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
Shaukat is too nice for a full fledged democracy in Pak. What's more, the court might block his way anyway. One of the cases before CJP before he was suspended was regarding MP's with dual nationality so we don't know.
Your solution did look like the script until 20th. Now it looks like neither US nor BB want to play with Musharraf anymore. To BB's credit, her most recent statement is something like this "Until the Musharraf govt' speeds up the negotiation process, there might not be a deal at all. Only 3 months r left in the life of this parliament."
To me a successful solution is going to be an PPP-MQM alliance (they simply will have to work with MQM) and with musharraf as a civilian president who slowly fades out of the picture.
I do wish they keep shaukat aziz involved but not as a PM, he still has much he can do as a finance minister
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
FOL
the challenge I have with this scenario is that if we forget personalities and we talk about policies.
if US is not happy with pak govt and wants a change in pak regime ...as if it has not been evident for the past 4 months...and teh regime changes, what is the new regime expected to do. what can they do differently.
Right now we see people who are jumping up and down because of 'heavy handed' govt action in lal masjid or FATA. But to US that is not enough. Now when a new regime comes into play and is pressured to do more, would peopel support thsi regime because it is an elected regime even if it is doing the same or more of teh stuff the people previously opposed?
Now lets say musharraf-benazir deals falls apart, SC rules against mushatrraf holding both offices, we hasve elections and some combo of parties are in power.
now..
what is the newly elected leader expected to do.
Does Pakistan openly allow US to launch missions in FATA?
Does Pakistan bomb the heck out of suspected terrorist hubs
Does Pakistan send the military in full force
Does Pakistan coordinate a 'joint' operation with NATO?
I dont know what the answer here is, I mean the pressure is to do more, not less.
I am all for doing more..
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
^^ totally agree....
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
Most main streams parties are not willing to support Musharraf’s war simply because they dont want to be associated with Musharraf. Heck Nawaz Sharif, who is going to the far right each passing day, approved a plan in his day to nab Osama. So it’s not a matter of if the mainstream parties will do more. they will and there will be more support for them. Have u not noticed the MQM folks supporting the party over May 12? If we guys can defend that, whats bombing a few guys holed up in some cave? [/sarcasm]
alright man..I am out now. Off to bed. 
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
dude, so u think that the pakhtoons and MMA supporters and vote bank will be okay with BB/Nawaz/Kafeel Bhai dropping daisy cutters in waziristan?
Re: The story behind ‘Benazir-Musharraf contacts’
dude, so u think that the pakhtoons and MMA supporters and vote bank will be okay with BB/Nawaz/Kafeel Bhai dropping daisy cutters in waziristan?
if they r going to be dropping daisy cutters, then what vote bank will be left?
Doing more does not only entail military action. They could do more in terms of political activity, development, schooling etc coupled with targeted military action. All this govt. is doing is making deals with militant commanders which in the short run gives the illusion of success against terrorism but in the long run comes back to haunt the entire country, as we have recently seen.